Meta Description: Join Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle as they explore Book 15 of Ovid’s Metamorphoses. Discover the link between Pythagoras and Numa, the Latin vocabulary for “mascot,” and why the Romans ignored the call to vegetarianism.
Introduction: A Smarchy Night in the Vomitorium
Welcome back to the “vomitorium,” listeners! In Episode 81 of the Ad Navseam Podcast, hosts Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle are battling the “smarchy” (smoggy March-like) weather of late April to bring you another deep dive into the Latin language and classical literature.
Despite running on fumes and second winds, the hosts are ready to tackle the final stretch of Ovid’s Metamorphoses. Specifically, they are looking at Book 15, a section of the poem that pairs two unlikely figures: the Greek philosopher Pythagoras and the Roman King Numa Pompilius.
If you are interested in the Latin language, Roman history, or just want to know why a Roman king ignored a 400-line sermon on being a vegetarian, this episode is for you.
Corrigendum: Correcting the Latin Vocabulary
Before diving into the meat (or lack thereof) of the episode, Dr. Noe issues a Corrigendum (a correction) regarding a vocabulary question from the previous week.
The question was: What is the Latin language term for “mascot”?
Previously, Dr. Noe suggested sectator or homunculus, but realized later that the word he was searching for was assecla.
- Definition: Assecla (from sequor, to follow) refers to a close follower, an attendant, or perhaps a sycophant.
- Usage: While it doesn’t describe a person in a plush costume cheering at a gladiator match, it captures the idea of a devoted follower—think Robin to Batman or a “kiss-up” in a Roman comedy.
This precision is what makes the study of the Latin language so rewarding; there is a word for almost every shade of human behavior.
Numa Pompilius: The “Noodles” of Rome
The episode centers on Numa Pompilius, the second king of Rome. For those struggling to remember the order of the seven Roman kings, Dr. Noe shares a brilliant mnemonic device learned from scholar Samuel Huskey:
“Ramen Noodles Toss and Turn Save Them”.
- Ramen: Romulus
- Noodles: Numa Pompilius
- Toss: Tullus Hostilius
- And: Ancus Marcius
- Turn: Tarquinius Priscus
- Save: Servius Tullius
- Them: Tarquinius Superbus
Numa, the “Noodles” of the group, was a Sabine from the town of Cures (giving us the term Quirites for Roman citizens). He is known as the great lawgiver and a pacifist—at least in Roman terms, meaning he didn’t start wars of aggression.
The Chronological Conundrum: Livy vs. Ovid
Here is the problem: Ovid presents Numa as a student of Pythagoras. However, as the historian Livy points out, Pythagoras lived about a century after Numa.
- Livy’s Take: The tradition is erroneous. Numa could not have studied under Pythagoras because the timelines don’t match.
- Ovid’s Take: He doesn’t care. Ovid is weaving a “beaded necklace” of stories (to quote scholar Elaine Fantham), and connecting the Roman lawgiver to the Greek mystic creates a compelling narrative bridge between Greek philosophy and Roman religion.
As Dr. Noe notes, the ancients were often less concerned with chronological precision and more interested in intellectual lineage. If Numa’s laws felt Pythagorean, then spiritually, he was a student of Pythagoras.
Enter Bland Man: Pythagoras on Vegetarianism
The bulk of the episode focuses on Ovid’s portrayal of Pythagoras in Book 15. The philosopher delivers a passionate, 400-line sermon urging mortals to stop eating meat. Dr. Noe affectionately titles this section “Enter Bland Man”.
Pythagoras offers several arguments for a vegetarian diet, translated beautifully by both Stanley Lombardo and Z. Philip Ambrose:
1. The Garden is Enough
Pythagoras argues that the earth is “extravagant” with its wealth. There are fruits bending the branches, grapes on the vine, and sweet herbs. Why desecrate your body with “sacrilegious food” (meat) when nature provides a feast without slaughter?
2. Don’t Be a Cyclops
Only wild beasts—Armenian tigers, lions, and bears—eat flesh. Pythagoras asks, “How wrong for flesh to become other flesh?” To eat meat is to behave like the monstrous Cyclops Polyphemus, stuffing his “greedy belly” with destruction.
3. The Golden Age
Vegetarianism is a return to the Golden Age (aurea aetas), a time of peace when birds flew safely and fish did not fear the hook. It was a “useless inventor” (an Adam figure) who first envied the lions and “laid the path to crime” by eating meat.
4. Metempsychosis (Transmigration of Souls)
This is the philosophical core of the argument. Pythagoras believes in Metempsychosis—the transmigration of souls. When a being dies, its soul moves into another body.
- The Horror: If souls migrate into animals, then eating a cow or a sheep is practically cannibalism. You might be eating your own ancestor or neighbor!
- The Thyestean Feast: Pythagoras compares meat-eating to the myth of Thyestes, who unknowingly ate his own children. It is a violation of the cosmic order.
The Punchline: Numa’s Reaction
So, how does Numa, the pious student, react to this moving, terrifying sermon about the sanctity of animal life?
Ovid delivers the punchline in just two lines of Latin poetry:
Sacrificos docuit ritus (“He taught them the rites of sacrifice”).
After listening to Pythagoras explain why killing animals is murder, Numa goes back to Rome and institutes the entire system of animal sacrifice.
The Irony:
Is this a joke? Dr. Winkle and Dr. Noe believe it is a “chin flip” from Ovid. It highlights the fundamental difference between the Greeks and the Romans.
- The Greek (Pythagoras): Lofty, philosophical, concerned with the metaphysics of the soul.
- The Roman (Numa): Practical, state-oriented, concerned with civic order.
The Romans acknowledge the Greek philosophy, but they aren’t going to let it get in the way of a good barbecue or a state ritual. Numa hears the sermon, nods politely, and then teaches Rome how to slaughter a bull properly.
Conclusion: Guacaroni and Cheese
As the hosts wrap up this tour of Ovidian irony, they offer a “billion-dollar idea” for the culinary world: Guacaroni and Cheese (Guacamole + Macaroni and Cheese). While it might sound like a Pythagorean nightmare, it captures the modern spirit of culinary fusion.
Gustatory Parting Shot
Dr. Noe leaves us with wisdom from Tyler Kord, author of A Super Upsetting Cookbook About Sandwiches:
“It’s important to achieve balance in sandwiches because who really knows how to achieve it in life? Life is messy… but you can always make a good sandwich and a good sandwich will make you happy.”
Whether you are a vegetarian philosopher or a meat-eating Roman king, we can all agree on the sanctity of a good sandwich.
Valete!
Resources for the Latin Learner
- The Moss Method: Ready to go from “Neophyte to Erudite” in Greek? Dr. Noe’s comprehensive course offers 40 video lessons and personal instruction. Visit the Moss Method website.
- Hackett Publishing: For the translations used in this episode (Stanley Lombardo and Z. Philip Ambrose), visit Hackett Publishing. Use code AN2022 for 20% off and free shipping.
Ratio Coffee: To brew coffee that is a “visual stimulant” and devoid of “fiddly” processes, check out the Ratio 6. Use code ANCO6Y for 15% off at Ratio Coffee.
