Meta Description: Join Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle in Ad Navseam Episode 36 as the Odyssey reaches its bloody climax. From the slaughter of the suitors to the disturbing execution of the maids, the hosts debate Retributive Justice vs. Therapeutic Justice and ask if Odysseus went too far.
Introduction: Captain Bringdown in the Antediluvian Gloom
Welcome back to the “Vomitorium,” listeners! It is Episode 36 of the Ad Navseam Podcast, and the mood is… complicated. Your hosts, Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe, are back in the booth, but the atmosphere is heavy.
Dr. Noe admits he is on edge, sensing a “pending gloom” or perhaps an “airing of grievances”. Why the dark mood? It is exam week. The hosts are living in “antediluvian times”—that moment of calm before the deluge of grading crashes down upon them. Dr. Noe describes his current state as a “heady brew” of exam stress and a “basic undercurrent of misanthropy”.
Dr. Winkle, attempting to be “Little Mary Sunshine,” points out that the weather in Michigan has finally turned gorgeous. But Dr. Noe, ever the realist (or “Captain Bringdown”), reminds us that while it may be sunny outside, they are stuck inside the bunker . This brackish mood is actually perfect for the subject matter at hand: Odyssey Book 22, the darkest, bloodiest chapter in the epic.
Shout-Out: From Classics to the ICU
Before the arrows start flying, we have a shout-out to a former student of both hosts: Amy Drake Silvasi. Amy is a newly graduated registered nurse currently living in Dexter, Michigan, but relocating to Oregon to work in a neurosurgical ICU.
The hosts remember her as a charming, talented, and curious student. It is a reminder that the study of the Latin language and Greek classics isn’t just for teachers; we need classically informed people in all walks of life, especially in high-stakes environments like the ICU. Good luck in Oregon, Amy!
The Opening Quote: Margaret Atwood and the Haunted Maids
Dr. Winkle sets the thematic stage with a quote from Mihoko Suzuki’s article on Margaret Atwood’s book, The Penelopiad.
Atwood famously rewrote the Odyssey because she was “haunted by the hanged maids”—the twelve women executed by Odysseus and Telemachus upon their return.
“Homer’s Odyssey appears to accept their fate without a scruple.”
This sets up the central conflict of the episode. Is the ending of the Odyssey a triumphant restoration of order, or is it a moral atrocity? Are we projecting modern Judeo-Christian morality onto an ancient text, or is the violence objectively excessive? As the hosts dive into the slaughter, they grapple with whether Odysseus is a hero dispensing justice or a man consumed by rage without a safety valve.
Book 20: The Calm Before the Slaughter
Before the violence, we get a moment of quiet tension in Book 20. Odysseus, still in disguise, is sleeping on the outer porch. He isn’t on a feather bed; he is sleeping on an “uncured ox hide” piled with the fleeces of sheep slaughtered by the suitors.
While he lays there, stewing in his anger, he hears a thunderclap from Zeus. Simultaneously, he hears a prayer from a woman inside the house. She is a servant grinding grain—the slowest of the workers, left behind to finish her task while the others sleep.
She prays:
“May this be the last day I have to… be stuck with this… and we finally get these suitors out of my house.”
Odysseus takes this as a divine omen. It is a classic comedic archetype: the lowest character on the social totem pole is given divine insight. The gods are speaking through the thunder and the grinder.
The Suitors: Not All Villains are Created Equal
As the final confrontation looms, the hosts discuss the nuance among the villains. Antinous and Eurymachus are the ringleaders—arrogant, cruel, and irredeemable. But what about Amphinomus? Or Leodes the soothsayer?
Dr. Winkle argues that Homer lends a measure of sympathy to some of these men. Amphinomus is described as a man of good stock who is just “along for the ride” due to peer pressure. Leodes, the soothsayer, actually tried to stop the suitors’ bad behavior. However, in the world of the Odyssey, nuance doesn’t save you. Amphinomus is “pinned by Athena”. Once you step into the arena of villainy, even as a passive observer, your fate is sealed. It is a harsh lesson in guilt by association.
Book 22: The Slaughter in the Hall
The bow has been strung. The axes have been shot through. Now, Odysseus tears off his rags and the massacre begins.
The first death is Antinous. It is a scene of grotesque irony. Antinous is just lifting a golden goblet of wine to his lips—completely clueless that death is upon him. Odysseus shoots him through the neck.
“The arrow goes through his neck, the wine comes out the throat, and the black blood comes out his nose.”
He goes down kicking the table, fouling the roasted meat and bread in the dust. It is an “Iliadic” death—brutal, graphic, and devoid of glory.
Eurymachus tries to bargain. He blames everything on the dead Antinous and offers to repay Odysseus with taxes and oxen. But Odysseus is not interested in restitution. He wants Retributive Justice (Lex Talionis). He tells them that not even all their wealth can replace his stolen honor (timê). The doors are locked, the women are gone, and the “fumigation” has begun.
The Problem of Leodes: Mercy Denied
The most troubling moment for Dr. Winkle is the death of Leodes, the soothsayer. Leodes rushes forward and clasps Odysseus’s knees—the universal gesture of supplication. He begs for his life, claiming he was only the priest and tried to stop the others.
In almost any other Greek context, a suppliant is protected by Zeus. To kill a man clasping your knees is a religious crime. But Odysseus doesn’t care. He scowls and says:
“If you are really their soothsayer… how many times must you have prayed… that my sweet homecoming would never come?”
He picks up a sword and chops Leodes’ head off while he is still speaking. Dr. Winkle finds this appalling. It suggests Odysseus has lost the ability to distinguish between degrees of guilt. Dr. Noe, playing the role of the hardliner, argues that Leodes was complicit. He was the spiritual leader of a gang trying to murder Odysseus’s son. In the heat of the slaughter, there is no time for a trial.
The Horror of the Maids and Melanthius
If the death of Leodes is troubling, the fate of the maids and the goatherd Melanthius is nightmare fuel.
Odysseus orders Telemachus to kill the twelve disloyal maids, but first, he forces them to clean up the carnage. They have to carry out the bodies of their lovers and sponge the blood off the furniture. It is one last act of housekeeping before execution.
Then, Telemachus decides on a “creative” execution. He refuses to give them a “clean death” (by sword). Instead, he strings them up on a ship’s cable like thrushes or doves.
“Their feet fluttered for a little while, but not for long.”
Immediately following this, they drag out Melanthius (the traitorous goatherd). They slice off his nose and ears, rip out his genitals to feed to the dogs, and chop off his hands and feet.
Dr. Noe and Dr. Winkle debate this furiously. Is this justice?
- Dr. Noe’s Defense: This is Retributive Justice. It is not about rehabilitation; it is about balancing the scales. These people humiliated the royal family for years.
- Dr. Winkle’s Rebuttal: Even retributive justice requires proportionality. This feels like torture. It is “over the top” and suggests a rage that has spiraled out of control.
Ultimately, they agree that this scene is meant to be difficult. It challenges the reader to ask if the “hero” has become a monster to defeat the monsters.
Conclusion: A Much-Needed Fumigation
The episode ends with Odysseus ordering a fumigation. He burns sulfur to cleanse the hall of the “stench of death”. The house is reclaimed, but at a terrible cost.
Next Week: We wrap it all up with Episode 37, covering Books 23 and 24. The reunion of husband and wife (the “Olive Tree Bed” test) and the final peace treaty.
Sponsors
This heavy discussion of justice and bloodshed is supported by:
- Ad Astra Roasters: Based in Hillsdale, Michigan. Try the Tenebris blend—perfect for dark mornings in the Vomitorium. Use code ANAA for 10% off at adastraroasters.com.
- Ratio Coffee: Brew your Ad Astra beans with the precision of a master archer using the Ratio 6. Use code ANCO for 15% off at ratiocoffee.com.
- Hackett Publishing: For the best translations of Homer, Aristotle, and more. Use code AN2021 for 20% off and free shipping at hackettpublishing.com.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
We leave you this week with a quote from the prolific author James Patterson (whose name on the cover is always larger than the title). It is a lighthearted thought to cleanse the palate after so much carnage:
“Popcorn for breakfast? Why not? It’s a grain. It’s like grits, but with high self-esteem.”
Valete!
Resources for the Latin Learner:The Moss Method: Want to read the violent climax of the Odyssey in the original Greek? Dr. Noe’s self-paced program takes you from “Neophyte to Erudite” for just $299 per module. Visit mossmethod.com.
