Meta Description: Join Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle in Ad Navseam Episode 57 for a blockbuster interview with Heather MacDonald. They discuss her book The Diversity Delusion, the “melodrama of oppression” on campus, and why the Latin language and the Classics are the antidote to modern narcissism.
Introduction: Nervous Energy in the Vomitorium
Welcome back to the “Vomitorium,” listeners! It is Episode 57 of the Ad Navseam Podcast, and the energy in the room is palpable. Your hosts, Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle, are usually the picture of relaxed, academic conviviality, but today? They are a little bit “apprehensive.” A little bit “nervous”.
Why the jitters? Because today they are welcoming a true intellectual heavyweight to the show. A guest whose work has sparked national conversations, enraged the academic establishment, and championed the values of Western Civilization when few others would. We are talking, of course, about Heather Mac Donald. This is a “big deal” episode. So, straighten your ties, clear your throats, and get ready for a conversation that cuts right to the heart of the crisis in higher education.
Shout-Out: The Stinky Foot
But before we get to the main event, we must honor our own. This week’s shout-out goes to William “Will” DeMann. Will is a recent graduate of Calvin University (the hosts’ former stomping grounds) and an allround Mensch. Will is now teaching social studies, and cites Sophocles’ Philoctetes as his favorite classical work. What? Dr. Noe notes that Will is a “fantastic guy” with a bright future. To Will, keeping the flame of tragedy burning bright: Macte virtute!
The Opening Quote: The Parasite on the University
Dr. Noe sets the stage with a blistering quote from Heather Mac Donald’s book, The Diversity Delusion. It perfectly encapsulates the thesis of the interview:
“The roots of the diversity delusion lie in the university… The diversity bureaucracy has grafted itself onto the university like a parasite, sucking the resources and energy out of the host organism… It has turned the university into a factory for the production of the ‘melodrama of oppression.'”
This image—the bureaucracy as a parasite killing the host—is visceral. It suggests that the modern university has lost its way, trading the pursuit of Truth (Veritas) for the pursuit of grievance.
Who is Heather Mac Donald?
For those living under a rock, Heather Mac Donald is the Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute and a contributing editor of City Journal. She is a lawyer by training (JD from Stanford University Law School), though she is a “non-practicing lawyer” (which Dr. Winkle jokes is the best kind) . She has written extensively on policing (The War on Cops), immigration (The Immigration Solution), and, most relevant to us, the culture of the academy. She is a fearless polemicist who brings data, logic, and a deep love for the humanities to every argument.
The Interview: Escaping the “Petty Self”
The conversation begins with Heather’s own intellectual journey. She describes her time at Yale and Cambridge in the 1970s and 80s as “High Theory” (Deconstructionism, Post-Structuralism) was taking over. She realized that this approach to literature—which treated great books as mere texts to be “deconstructed” for power dynamics—was killing the soul of the humanities. It stripped the “grandeur” and “beauty” out of the Western tradition.
The Core Argument:
Heather argues that the true purpose of the humanities—and specifically the study of the Latin language and Greek classics—is to allow us to escape our petty selves.
“The great gift of Western civilization is the ability to transcend one’s own narrow identity… to commune with the great minds of the past, regardless of their race, gender, or era.”
Modern “Identity Politics,” she argues, does the exact opposite. It forces students to obsess over their own identity (race, gender, sexual orientation). It traps them in the “Narcissism of the Present.” Instead of reading Vergil to understand the universal human condition, they read him to find evidence of “patriarchy” or “imperialism.” It turns the library into a mirror, where you only look for yourself.
The “Melodrama of Oppression”
Dr. Winkle asks about the phrase “The Melodrama of Oppression.” Heather explains that modern students are taught to view themselves as victims. They are encouraged to find “microaggressions” in every interaction.
- The Result: A generation of “fragile” students who cannot handle disagreement.
- The Tragedy: These are the most privileged individuals in human history—attending elite universities with billion-dollar endowments—yet they are convinced they are oppressed. It is a “delusion” that destroys gratitude.
Defending the “Dead White Men”
The hosts bring up the common attack on the Classics: that it is just the study of “Dead White Men.” Heather’s response is unapologetic. So what? She argues that Homer, Aeschylus, Plato, and Ovid are not great because they were white males; they are great because they articulated the human experience with “sublime beauty” and “terrifying depth”. To reject them based on their demographics is the ultimate act of racism and sexism. It assumes that a black female student in 2026 cannot connect with a white male poet from 43 BC. Heather calls this “insulting.” The Latin language is a bridge, not a barrier. It belongs to anyone willing to do the work.
The Suicide of the Humanities
Perhaps the most depressing part of the interview is Heather’s diagnosis of the current state of academia. She argues that the humanities are committing “suicide.” By abandoning standards of beauty and truth in favor of political activism, departments are making themselves irrelevant. Why should parents pay $60,000 a year for their child to learn that “everything is racist”? She notes that Enrollment in the Humanities is plummeting. And frankly, she says, the professors have no one to blame but themselves. They have “betrayed their stewardship” of the culture.
Is There Hope? The Remnant
Dr. Noe asks the inevitable question: Is there any hope?
Heather is a realist (or perhaps a pessimist), but she sees glimmers of light.
- The Remnant: There are still individual teachers and small colleges (often religious or Great Books schools) that keep the flame alive.
- The Public: There is a hunger among the general public (evidenced by the success of podcasts like Ad Navseam!) for real learning. People want to know about Roman History, Greek Philosophy, and the Latin language. They are tired of the politicized drivel coming out of the Ivy League.
Her advice to listeners? Go to the source. Don’t wait for the university to teach you. Read Milton. Read Thucydides. Learn Latin. Build your own “aristocracy of the mind”.
Sponsors: Fuel for the Counter-Revolution
This episode, which feels very much like a manifesto for the resistance, is brought to you by:
- Ad Astra Roasters: Based in Hillsdale, Michigan (a place that knows a thing or two about preserving Western Civ). Dr. Winkle recommends the “Starry Night” blend.
- The Deal: Visit adastraroasters.com and use code ANAA for a discount.
- Ratio Coffee: If you are going to read The Diversity Delusion late into the night, you need good coffee. The Ratio 6 and Ratio 8 simulate a pourover with scientific precision.
- The Deal: Visit ratiocoffee.com and use code ANCO for 15% off .
- Hackett Publishing: For the books you should be reading. Get your copies of Aristotle, Plato, and the Stoics.
- The Deal: Visit hackettpublishing.com and use code AN2021 for 20% off .
- The Moss Method: Heather Mac Donald regrets not mastering Greek earlier. Don’t make the same mistake. Learn the Latin language and Greek with Dr. Noe’s self-paced course.
- The Deal: Visit mossmethod.com.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
We wrap up this intense episode with a simple, grounding thought from author Nitya Prakash. After discussing the complexities of culture wars and high theory, it is nice to return to basics:
“Food is the most primitive form of comfort.”
In a world of “melodrama” and “delusion,” sometimes a good meal is the only honest thing left.
Valete! (And keep fighting the good fight).
Resources for the Latin Learner:
- The Moss Method: Inspired by Heather MacDonald’s call to return to the texts? Start your journey into the Latin or Greek language today at latinperdiem.com.
- Book Recommendation: Pick up a copy of The Diversity Delusion by Heather MacDonald to understand the battlefield of modern education.
