Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 139 as they explore the pedagogical revolution of the Sophists in ancient Athens. Discover why Sophocles only needed a fifth-grade education, how Plato’s Academy was resurrected in the Renaissance, and why modern college degrees are wrestling with ancient pragmatism. Plus, a lesson on the Latin language of imitation and the strange world of broom hockey.
Introduction: Coast-to-Coast and Liminal Spaces
Welcome back, classical gourmands, to Episode 139 of the Ad Navseam Podcast! We are broadcasting once again from the depths of the Vomitorium, where your hosts, Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe, are recovering from the rigors of modern existence.
Dr. Noe is battling the remnants of severe sleep deprivation after a massive cross-country journey. He recently traveled to a seminary in California to teach on one of his absolute favorite subjects: the 16th-century theologian Theodore Beza. While the West Coast was beautiful—featuring guided trips to the Huntington Library and a solo expedition to the magnificent Getty Villa to see ancient instructions to the underworld—the return trip was a logistical nightmare.
To get back to Grand Rapids, Dr. Noe had to bounce from San Diego to Baltimore, and then somehow route through Pittsburgh. Along the way, he was trapped in the anxiety-inducing “liminal space” of Chicago’s Midway Airport. Desperate for sustenance, he braved an obscure, non-chain restaurant called “M Burger,” proving that travel truly is a roll of the culinary dice.
Meanwhile, Dr. Winkle is relishing the absence of snow days and enjoying the rhythm of his spring classes. In his film genre class, he recently introduced his students to Alfred Hitchcock’s Strangers on a Train, unpacking the brilliant Greek mythological undercurrents woven throughout the thriller. Never one to miss a recommendation, Dr. Noe pitches a recent sci-fi dystopia film he watched on his flight called The Pod Generation, comparing its themes of external, artificial gestation to the mythological birth of Athena from the forehead of Zeus.
The Opening Quote: The Platonic Renaissance and Broom Hockey
To transition into the main topic of education, Dr. Winkle shares an opening quote from Matthias Baltes’ 1993 article, Plato’s School of the Academy. The quote details the sweeping legacy of Greek philosophy in the West:
“All the traditional academies of modern times go back ultimately to the model of the Academia Platonica, which Cosimo de’ Medici set up in Florence around the year 1460 on the model of the Platonic Academy, or at least that was his intention… through his efforts in particular made available to the West the works of Plato, which had hitherto been generally unknown…”
This sparks a fascinating debate between the hosts regarding imitation. When Cosimo de’ Medici founded his academy in 15th-century Italy, it obviously wasn’t an exact replica of Plato’s Athenian grove. But does an imitation need to be a flawless copy to be legitimate?
Dr. Noe argues it does not, using the bizarre Midwestern sport of “broom hockey” as an analogy. Broom hockey is played on an ice rink, but without ice skates (players wear snow boots), without a puck (they use a kickball), and without hockey sticks (they use brooms). It is only “hockey” in the weakest structural sense, but it captures the competitive spirit and purpose of the game.
The same applies to the modern classical education movement. A school doesn’t need native Athenian speakers or flawless perfection to be a legitimate heir to antiquity. If it genuinely imitates the purpose of classical learning—seeking truth, logic, and mastery of texts—it is valid. However, if an institution slaps the word “Classical” or “Academy” on its door merely as an attractive veneer (or patina) without actually reading the great works or studying the Latin language, it is simply a bait-and-switch.
Marrou Part 5: The Post-War Boom and the 5th Grade Geniuses
The core of today’s episode is a return to Henri-Irénée Marrou’s 1956 masterpiece, A History of Education in Antiquity (affectionately dubbed “Marrou Five” by the hosts). Marrou is unparalleled in his ability to synthesize sweeping historical trends with precise, granular analysis.
Chapter 5 plunges us into the golden age of 5th-century Athens. Following the Persian Wars, Athens entered the Pentekontaetia—a roughly 50-year period of explosive wealth, peace, and cultural dominance fueled by the Delian League.
Yet, Marrou drops a startling historical bombshell: the men who built this cultural zenith—titans like the statesman Pericles, the tragic playwright Sophocles, and the master sculptor Phidias—possessed what we would consider a mere elementary education. Their formal schooling stopped around the equivalent of the modern fifth grade. How did they achieve such greatness? Dr. Winkle compares it to the film industry in the 1960s or computer programming in the 1980s; before formal “film schools” or “computer science degrees” existed, brilliant autodidacts like Alfred Hitchcock or early tech pioneers simply invented the disciplines from the ground up.
The Rise of the Sophists: Education for Sale
As Athens transitioned into a massive democratic superpower, the aristocratic focus on athletics and polite society wasn’t enough. Young, ambitious Athenians wanted to learn how to lead, persuade, and govern the polis—they wanted to be the next Pericles or Themistocles.
Enter the Sophists.
Men like Protagoras and Gorgias revolutionized the world by creating the first traveling educational system. Protagoras was the first to offer to teach these high-level skills for money. Because there was no established market for this, he had to invent the “publicity system”. He would travel from town to town, set up in the busy Agora or at the Olympic games, and deliver an epideixis (a sample demonstration or public lecture) to wow the crowds and recruit wealthy pupils. Dr. Winkle beautifully compares this to modern online “MasterClasses,” where experts offer their elite secrets for a premium subscription fee.
Episteme vs. Techne: The Pragmatism of Modern College
What exactly were these high-priced Sophists teaching? Marrou explains they taught politike techne—the specific art and skill of politics. Their brand of education was rooted in a “relativistic humanism,” epitomized by Protagoras’ famous maxim: “Man is the measure of all things”.
They weren’t interested in deep metaphysical truths, eternal morality, or the nature of the soul. They simply taught practical rules for imposing your will on the city and winning arguments in any circumstance.
This brings the hosts to a discussion on the state of modern education. Plato viciously attacked the Sophists because he believed you cannot separate the technical skill of politics (techne) from true moral knowledge (episteme). He viewed them as dangerous snake-oil salesmen selling the illusion of wisdom.
Today, we face the exact same tension. When students come to Dr. Winkle asking what they should major in, the underlying anxiety is always, “What am I going to do with this?”. As Dr. Noe points out, this intense pragmatism—which Alexis de Tocqueville noted was uniquely American over 200 years ago—is driven entirely by the exorbitant cost of college tuition. If education were cheap or free, students would happily study philosophy or art for the sheer joy of human development. But because modern degrees cost a fortune, universities have largely adopted the Sophist model: highly vocational, fiercely pragmatic training designed to secure a job rather than cultivate the soul.
Pop Culture Assassination: The Dana Carvey Effect
The episode also touches on how popular culture can permanently destroy a historical reputation. While Plato had philosophical reasons to hate the Sophists, the comic playwright Aristophanes took a more brutal approach. In his play The Clouds, Aristophanes caricatured Socrates as the ultimate, absurd Sophist, with his head literally in the clouds.
This comedic hit-job was so successful that Socrates had to spend part of his actual trial (recorded in Plato’s Apology) begging the jury to stop confusing him with a fictional stage character. Dr. Noe notes that this is identical to modern political impressions. When comedians like Dana Carvey impersonated George H.W. Bush, the exaggerated parody eventually replaced the reality of the actual man in the public consciousness.
Sponsors: Fuel for the Classical Renaissance
To fight back against the creeping pragmatism of the modern era, you need the right tools. The hosts take a moment to thank the sponsors that make the Ad Navseam bunker run:
- Ratio Coffee: Stop subjecting yourself to the indignity of hotel pod-coffee or generic drip machines. Mark Helweg’s Ratio 8 and Ratio 6 perform a flawless “bloom” stage to off-gas bitter CO2 before the brew cycle. It is the ultimate push-button pour-over. Visit ratiocoffee.com and use the code ANCO5K (K for Kaleidoscope of flavors!) for 15% off.
- Hackett Publishing: For over 50 years, Hackett has kept the classics alive by offering erudite, beautiful, and highly affordable translations of the great texts. Don’t settle for the “generic peanut butter” of academia. Go to hackettpublishing.com and use code AN2024 at checkout for 20% off and free shipping.
- The Moss Method & Latin Per Diem: Want to skip the modern Sophists and read the original texts yourself? Dr. Noe’s Moss Method will take you from “neophyte to erudite” in ancient Greek for $325. Or, if you want to master the grammar of the Latin language, join his Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata (LLPSI) course at latinperdiem.com/llpsi.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
Next week, the hosts will welcome colleagues Steve Maiulo and Anne Larson to discuss Anna Maria van Schurman, the brilliant 17th-century Dutch scholar known as the “Minerva of Utrecht”.
To close us out, Dr. Winkle offers a highly pragmatic, modern Greek Gustatory Parting Shot:
“Life is a cucumber. Either you eat it and are refreshed or you eat it and struggle.”With a little salt, pepper, and vinegar, we hope your classical education is refreshing. Valete!
