Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 113 as they tackle Vergil’s Aeneid Book 10. Discover the council of the gods, the debate over catalog poetry, bloody amphibious invasions, and resources to master the Latin language.
Introduction: Spring Break, Midterms, and Murphy’s Law
Welcome back, classical gourmands, to Episode 113 of the Ad Navseam Podcast! Broadcasting directly from the subterranean depths of the bunker, your hosts, Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe, return to the microphones for another deep dive into Greco-Roman civilization.
Dave opens the show buzzing with energy. He recently returned from several weeks of traveling through the Florida and Philadelphia areas, and he is entirely eager to get back to the bread and butter of classical literature. Jeff matches this excitement, eagerly anticipating his upcoming university spring break. He hopes to hit the gym, get some reading done, and work on music. However, Jeff admits he currently dreads the massive stack of midterms looming over his desk. Dave points out that grading always perfectly obeys Murphy’s Law: the arduous task automatically expands to fill the exact amount of free time you have available, effectively robbing you of any actual recreational fun.
Listener Mail: Parental Love and Divorced Deities
Before diving into epic poetry, Dave opens the mailbag to read a phenomenal letter from Jasmine Hall, a first-year English Literature and Philosophy double major studying at Liverpool University in the UK.
Jasmine writes to thank the hosts for their ongoing Aeneid series, noting she reads along with her very own copy of the Stanley Lombardo translation. She then poses a brilliant question regarding the range and variety of parental love depicted in the text. She astutely observes that Venus acts much like a divorced parent who tries to buy Aeneas’s affection with big, showy gifts, but completely fails to provide the everyday emotional support that he receives from his mortal father, Anchises.
Dave and Jeff absolutely love this spot-on analysis. They discuss the cultural expectations of the Roman paterfamilias. Surprisingly, Anchises provides deep emotional support, contrasting sharply with the stereotypical stern Roman father who might legally execute his own son for a simple battlefield infraction. Meanwhile, Venus remains emotionally distant. She only shows true emotion when she pleads with Jupiter, manipulating the king of the gods to secure her own personal honor and upstage Juno rather than displaying genuine maternal tenderness toward Aeneas.
Expanding on Roman family dynamics, Dave notes how different the ancient concept of adoption was from modern practices. Referencing Terence’s comedic play The Brothers (Adelphoe), Dave explains that Romans frequently adopted nieces and nephews within the immediate family. This profound sense of familial integration helps explain why Aeneas feels such an overwhelming, dutiful responsibility to protect Pallas, the young son of his new ally, King Evander.
The Fate of Sarpedon and the El Camino of Destiny
The primary academic focus of Episode 113 centers on the brutal warfare of Aeneid Book 10. Jeff introduces an opening quote from scholar David Quint, published in a 2001 Italian journal. Quint argues that as the war in Italy produces a second Iliad, Book 10 specifically produces many versions of the hero Sarpedon.
In the Iliad, Zeus tragically allows his own son, Sarpedon, to die on the battlefield at the hands of Patroclus. Jeff explains that Vergil meditates heavily on this Homeric precedent, questioning why the gods magically rescue certain heroes—like Aeneas—while leaving others to perish violently in the dirt.
This theme sparks a lively debate between the hosts about the actual mechanics of fate. In the Iliad, Zeus occasionally toys with the idea of saving mortals from their destinies, implying he holds the raw power to manipulate fate if he chooses. However, in the Aeneid, Vergil establishes fate as an unyielding, cemented force. Dave reminds listeners of their recurring podcast metaphor: the Parcae (the Fates) essentially roll around in an El Camino, spinning and cutting the thread of mortal life, leaving even the mighty Jupiter completely subservient to their cosmic joyride.
The Council of the Gods: Venus vs. Juno
Book 10 formally opens with a tense council of the gods on Mount Olympus. Jupiter angrily chastises the other deities for meddling in the Italian conflict, demanding to know why they continually thwart his will and provoke war.
Venus immediately pleads Aeneas’s case, whining that the Trojans perfectly followed all divine oracles and do not deserve this horrific siege. She complains about her own potential injuries—referencing the scratch she received from Diomedes in the Iliad—and even attempts to manipulate Jupiter into letting her whisk her grandson Ascanius away to safety, a trick she previously pulled in Carthage. However, Dave admits she makes one incredibly solid point: the Trojans flawlessly performed every required ritual, legally obligating Jupiter to assist them.
Juno fiercely claps back with a blistering, highly logical retort. She points out that she never forced Aeneas to invade Italy, steal a bride, or pillage peaceful fields. Juno exposes the sheer hypocrisy of the Trojan invasion, asking how offering peace with one hand while arming ships with the other can possibly be considered just. While Juno’s argument raises valid, subversive questions about Roman imperialism, Jupiter simply shuts down the squabbling. He refuses to take a side, famously declaring that fate will simply find its way, rendering the entire divine council somewhat impotent.
Sponsors: Fueling the Classical Renaissance
Before the blood begins to spill on the beaches of Italy, Dave and Jeff thank the generous sponsors keeping the bunker operational.
- Ratio Coffee: If you remain deeply frustrated by the brackish, tangy results produced by cheap, squirty plastic coffee makers, Dave and Jeff urge you to upgrade your morning routine. Entrepreneur Mark Hellweg engineered the gorgeous Ratio 8 and Ratio 6 machines to deliver a pristine automated pour-over. Jeff reads some glowing online reviews, noting that one self-proclaimed “coffee nerd” praised the machine’s showerhead design for perfectly saturating the coffee bed. Visit ratiocoffee.com and enter the promo code ANCO9Y for a generous 15% discount on your order.
- Hackett Publishing: For over five decades, Hackett Publishing has operated out of Indianapolis and Cambridge, providing academics and casual readers with beautiful, highly affordable translations. Dave browses the website live on air, marveling at the incredible breadth of their new and forthcoming catalog, which features titles on Aristotle’s chemistry, the Russian Revolution, and the Buddha’s teachings. Head to hackettpublishing.com, fill your satchel, and enter the code AN2023 to receive 20% off your entire order plus free shipping.
- Latin Per Diem: For listeners inspired by Jasmine’s dedication to the classics, Dave briefly highlights his online language courses. Anyone wanting to master the Latin language entirely from the ground up (ab initio) can visit latinperdiem.com/llpsi, where Dave utilizes Hans Ørberg’s renowned Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata curriculum, guiding students through the language via thirty instructional videos, quizzes, and listening aids.
Catalogs, Soul Glo, and Amphibious Invasions
Returning to the mortal realm, Vergil briefly pauses the action to describe Ascanius. Jeff laughs at Vergil’s excessively glamorous description of the boy’s unhelmeted, milk-white neck and streaming golden hair. Jeff jokes that the imagery perfectly resembles a slow-motion shampoo commercial or the iconic “Soul Glo” advertisement from the classic Eddie Murphy comedy film Coming to America.
Aeneas finally returns to the besieged Trojan camp at midnight, arriving by ship alongside his new Etruscan ally, King Tarchon, and Evander’s young son, Pallas. Before detailing the invasion, Vergil invokes the Muses to deliver a massive catalog of the Tuscan greats. Dave firmly defends catalog poetry, comparing the roll call to reading the statistics on the back of a baseball card or hyping up the starting lineup at a basketball game. Jeff, however, finds the catalogs incredibly tedious, comparing the experience to suffering through Billy Joel’s chaotic song “We Didn’t Start the Fire” or mindlessly doom-scrolling on a smartphone.
As Aeneas’s fleet hits the beach, the scene erupts into a cinematic, amphibious invasion. Jeff notes that the claustrophobic chaos immediately reminds him of the harrowing opening sequence in Steven Spielberg’s Saving Private Ryan. Dave shares a touching personal anecdote regarding D-Day: while visiting the Stoa of Attalos in Athens back in 2012, a French tourist (really!) stopped him on a staircase and spontaneously thanked him for the American sacrifices made on the beaches of Normandy over sixty years prior.
During the chaotic landing, the Trojan ships—which the goddess Cybele previously transformed into sea nymphs—swim out to greet Aeneas. A nymph named Cymodocea warns Aeneas that his cardboard-like fort stands on the verge of total collapse, prompting a desperate, last-minute rescue mission.
Fortune Favors the Bold and the Calamus Drop
Seeing the Trojan ships land, the Rutulian leader Turnus refuses to panic. He borrows the brilliant tactical strategy utilized by Miltiades at the Battle of Marathon in 490 BC, deciding to attack the Trojans in the surf before they can establish a solid foothold on the beach.
Turnus rallies his men with a famously quotable, yet unfinished, Vergilian line: Audentes fortuna iuvat (“Fortune favors the bold”). Dave and Jeff joke that Vergil crafted such a perfect “calamus drop” (the ancient Roman equivalent of a mic drop, utilizing a reed pen) that he simply did not know how to finish the hexameter line without ruining the dramatic punch.
The subsequent beach battle unleashes a horrifying torrent of blood and gore. Vergil explicitly highlights the senseless tragedy of war, pausing to mourn Lycus, a warrior miraculously cut from his dead mother’s womb via C-section as an infant, only to be slaughtered mercilessly on the beach years later. Aeneas then violently kills three brothers—Maeon, Alcanor, and Numitor. When Alcanor tries to support his falling brother, Aeneas’s spear punches straight through his arm, leaving the man staring in absolute horror at his own dead hand dangling by the sinews. Dave and Jeff firmly conclude that anyone who reads the Aeneid as a simple, jingoistic celebration of war completely misinterprets the horrific tragedy of the text.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
To officially wrap up Episode 113, Jeff delivers a hilarious Gustatory Parting Shot courtesy of the late, great comedian Mitch Hedberg.
Pondering the strange, unnatural varieties of deli meat available at the local grocery store, Hedberg offered this brilliant piece of advice:
“I hate turkeys. If you go to the grocery store, you start to get mad at turkeys. You see turkey ham, turkey bologna, turkey pastrami. Somebody just needs to tell the turkeys, man, just be yourselves. I already like you, little fella. I used to draw you.”
A special thanks goes out to Mishka the sound engineer, and to Scott Van Zen and Ken Tamplin for the blistering blues guitar riffs. Watch out for the Fates in their El Camino, try not to doom-scroll your catalogs, and keep taking in the classics. Valete!
