Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 162 as they explore antebellum views of democracy, the specter of Julius Caesar, and resources to master the Latin language.
Introduction: Olympiads, Tubs, and Salted Karma
Welcome back, classical gourmands, to Episode 162 of the Ad Navseam Podcast! Broadcasting from the comfortable confines of Vomitorium South—the RHB bookstore and coffee shop—your hosts, Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle, return to the microphones.
Reflecting on the lifespan of the podcast, Dave notes they have been producing the show for a little over four years, marking a full Olympiad of operation. Jeff agrees, suggesting they organize their timekeeping around the “consulship of Winkle and Noe” to maintain the classical theme. The hosts reminisce about the early, nomadic days of the podcast when Jeff would arrive in the “Winklemobile” and they were forced to lug a plastic tub of equipment from location to location. Having graduated from a small Tupperware container to a heavy-duty industrial tub with a red lid, they are deeply grateful for their permanent, dedicated studio space.
The banter shifts to health and the changing seasons. While Jeff is enjoying the cooler, rainy autumn temperatures, Dave admits he recently suffered from some congestional breathing difficulties. Dave points out that this illness is entirely Jeff’s fault. In a previous episode, when Jeff announced his entire family was sick, Dave impertinently joked that they were sick “of you”. Earning some immediate, “salted karma” for the joke, Dave caught the exact same bug just a few days later.
The Luster of Rome vs. The Mob of Greece
The primary academic focus of Episode 162 resumes the podcast’s journey through Carl Richard’s The Golden Age of the Classics in America. Unlike scholars who argue that American devotion to classical antiquity declined approaching the Civil War, Richard posits that the antebellum period represented a golden age of even greater intensity and devotion to the Greco-Roman world.
Diving into chapter two, the hosts explore the antebellum perspective on democracy. While admiration for Athenian democracy grew during this era, Rome never lost its luster. Antebellum thinkers like George Frederick Holmes argued that the strict Roman reverence for law served as a crucial, necessary check on the wild Greek love of liberty. Richard quotes Hugh Swinton Legare, who expressed astonishment that brilliant Greek literature and art could originate within a “tumultuary and excitable mob” that frequently acted as a passive instrument for demagogues.
Dave notes this creates a persistent historical trope: Romans are defined by their strict adherence to law and order, while Greeks are defined by their passionate, chaotic liberty. Though the hosts acknowledge this trope is an oversimplification, it perfectly explains why the American founders rejected the pure Athenian democracy in favor of a mixed, representative constitution modeled on the Roman Republic.
The Pnyx, the Wet Paint Rope, and Voting Stickers
The conversation regarding pure democracy prompts a discussion regarding scale. Aristotle famously stated that the functional size of a democracy is strictly limited to the space that will hold all of its voters at one time. The hosts note that even the largest stadium in the Midwest—the “Big House” in Ann Arbor, Michigan—only holds 110,000 people, making a pure, direct democracy logistically impossible for a modern nation of 330 million citizens.
Even in ancient Athens, pure democracy required coercion. Jeff shares a fascinating architectural detail regarding the Pnyx, the crowded hillside where the Athenian assembly gathered to govern. Holding roughly 6,000 citizens, this space was not filled with eager, willing voters. Instead, it was a function of the slave population to walk through the Agora carrying a rope covered in wet red paint, physically herding the sluggish citizens up the hill. If a citizen arrived with their clothing stained by the paint, it served as a public mark of shame for their democratic laziness.
The hosts compare this ancient mark of shame to the modern “I Voted” sticker. Both Dave and Jeff admit they absolutely refuse to wear the sticker, finding the public, self-congratulatory display of completing a basic civic duty to be somewhat absurd.
Roman Military Virtue and the Avoidance of Miltiades
Moving beyond politics, Richard explores the American admiration for Roman military virtue. The hosts observe a striking historical pattern: antebellum Americans frequently compared their generals to Roman figures like Cincinnatus or Fabius Maximus, while almost entirely ignoring Greek heroes like Miltiades or Epaminondas.
Jeff initially finds this puzzling. The scrappy, underdog Greeks fighting off the massive Persian empire seems like a perfect, natural corollary for the American colonists fighting off the behemoth of Great Britain.
Dave theorizes that the key lies in the profound influence of Stoicism. Leading Roman figures like Cato, Seneca, and Cicero actively cultivated a highly disciplined, stoic persona characterized by sobriety and strict mores. Americans felt much more comfortable imitating this stoic heroism than comparing themselves to brilliant but wild Greek conquerors like Alexander the Great. Consequently, John Quincy Adams praised the guerrilla tactics of the Revolutionary War by comparing them to the stalling strategies of the Roman general Fabius Maximus, and William Henry Harrison eagerly compared his own troops to those of the Roman conqueror Scipio Africanus.
The Role of Women and the Gracchi Matrons
Richard’s text also examines the role of women in this democratizing society. Much like the Athenian democrats, antebellum Americans did not envision direct political equality for women. Instead, they elevated Cornelia—the virtuous mother of the Roman reformers Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus—as the ultimate model of “Republican Motherhood”. According to Plutarch, when a frivolous lady asked to see Cornelia’s jewelry, Cornelia simply presented her sons, demonstrating that a woman’s true value lay in raising virtuous, patriotic citizens.
This strict domestic ideal produced deep societal contradictions. Louisa McCord, a prominent Southern writer who received a remarkably thorough classical education, wrote a popular play titled Gaius Gracchus. Within the play, McCord’s characters argue that women must smother their fierce passions and remain quietly within doors, leaving the world-shaking heroics entirely to men.
Ironically, the male critics of the era praised McCord’s play specifically for its “masculine energy” and “manly” terseness. The hosts marvel at the strange phenomenon of a self-taught, highly ambitious female playwright utilizing her vast classical knowledge to publicly argue that women should remain silent and unlearned.
The Specter of Julius Caesar and the Assassins
The final section of the chapter explores the antebellum era’s greatest classical villain: Julius Caesar. Held entirely responsible for the fall of the revered Roman Republic, the specter of Caesar haunted American political discourse.
Political leaders constantly accused their rivals of harboring Caesarean ambitions. John Quincy Adams labeled the New England federalists as “mini Caesars,” and later utilized the pseudonym Patrick Henry to suggest that John C. Calhoun was actively plotting to subvert American liberties. Similarly, opponents of Andrew Jackson compared his massive populist appeal to the dangerous tyranny of Caesar, Alexander, and Cromwell.
This rhetorical paranoia occasionally spilled into actual violence. Richard notes that John Wilkes Booth—the man who assassinated Abraham Lincoln—was the son of Junius Brutus Booth, an actor named directly after the ancient Roman assassin. Less than five months before killing Lincoln, Booth appeared in a stage production of Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar in New York City. Believing he was acting out a divine, historical mandate, Booth shot the president and shouted “Sic Semper Tyrannis”. Reading from Booth’s personal diary, the hosts note that Booth entirely misread the political situation, genuinely believing the public would celebrate him as a heroic Brutus rather than condemn him as a common cutthroat.
Sponsors: Fueling the Classical Renaissance
Before delivering the parting shot, the hosts extend their immense gratitude to the sponsors keeping the podcast operational.
- Hackett Publishing: With offices in Indianapolis and Cambridge, Hackett Publishing has supplied students and scholars with erudite, affordable texts for over four years of the podcast’s lifespan. The hosts praise their brilliant, high-quality covers, including the Moonshot cover of the Odyssey and the picture of Elvis Presley on the Bacchae. Build a personal library at hackettpublishing.com and use the code AN2024 to receive a 20% discount and free shipping on your entire order.
- Ratio Coffee: Dave and Jeff highly recommend upgrading your morning ritual with the Ratio 8, praising the automated bloom stage that perfectly off-gases CO2 to deliver a hot, barista-quality pour-over. They also eagerly anticipate the arrival of the Ratio 4, a sleek, agile half-batch machine perfect for brewing a single travel mug. Visit ratiocoffee.com and enter the promo code ANCOX5 to receive 15% off your order.
- LatinPerDiem & MossMethod: For listeners inspired to master the Latin language and ancient Greek, Dave offers comprehensive educational courses. Visit mossmethod.com to access over 2,100 free video lessons or sign up for the self-paced Greek course featuring weekly live “Moffice hours”. To conquer Latin, explore latinperdiem.com/llpsi to learn via Hans Ørberg’s Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata, or tackle Calvin’s Institutes and Cicero’s De Natura Deorum through Dave’s advanced masterclasses.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
To officially close out Episode 162, the hosts extend their gratitude to Mishka the sound engineer and to the generous musicians Ken Tamplin and Scott Van Zen for providing the ripping, bluesy guitar tracks and bumper music.
Dave then delivers the Gustatory Parting Shot, courtesy of the author Joe Dunthorne from his work Submarine.
Regarding the vital importance of chewing, Dunthorne offers this highly pragmatic defense:
“My mother tells me that I do not chew my food enough. She says I am making it harder for my body to get the essential nutrients it needs. If she were here, I would remind her that I am eating a blueberry Pop-Tart.”
Jeff admits he loves the quote, especially noting that the Pop-Tart contains absolutely no nutritional content to begin with. Check out the “Lurch with Merch” section on the website to grab a QVAE NOCENT DOCENT t-shirt, beware of measuring your bunker for a jacuzzi, and keep taking in the classics. Valete!
