Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 215 as they interview Aaron Poochigian on his new translation of Marcus Aurelius, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and resources to master the Latin language.
Introduction: Dermatologists and the Beatles
Welcome back, classical gourmands, to Episode 215 of the Ad Navseam Podcast! Broadcasting from Vomitorium Central, your hosts, Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle, return to the microphones.
The episode opens with Dave recounting a highly annoying medical malady. After returning from the Calvin Studies Society Colloquium in Alabama, Dave discovered a terrible, itching rash on his forearm. Naturally, he visited the dermatologist. Delivering a painfully long, winding setup, Dave explains that he and the doctor were entirely on different pages, mirroring the lyrics of the famous Beatles song. As Dave says “yes,” the doctor says “no”; as Dave says “stop,” the doctor says “go, go, go”. The baffling exchange culminates with the doctor saying “goodbye” and Dave saying “Aloe, Aloe, Aloe”. Jeff groans at the sheer length of the musical pun but admits the punchline was ultimately worth the journey.
The Poet’s Journey: Sappho and English Meter
Moving to the core of the episode, the hosts are thrilled to welcome translator and poet Aaron Poochigian to the podcast. Ppoochigian recently published a brilliant, highly acclaimed translation of Marcus Aurelius’s Meditations for W.W. Norton & Company.
Poochigian shares his academic journey, noting he attended Moorhead State University before earning a PhD at the University of Minnesota and an MFA in creative writing. His path to the classics began at eighteen when he read the opening of Virgil’s Aeneid in a humanities textbook. Though he didn’t know Latin at the time, sounding out the ancient meter triggered an almost religious experience; the sky seemed to brighten, and he knew he was destined to learn ancient Greek and master the Latin language to become a poet.
Poochigian began translating ancient poetry as a craft exercise to absorb the great voices of the past. While serving as a visiting professor at the University of Utah, he produced a translation of Sappho titled Stung with Love for Penguin Classics, relishing the opportunity to write “in drag” by adopting the ancient female voice. When discussing meter, Poochigian explains the absolute impossibility of directly mapping quantitative ancient Greek prosody onto qualitative, stress-based English. If translated strictly by the original meter, the majestic opening of Homer’s Iliad degrades into the bouncy, triple-meter rhythm of “Hickory Dickory Dock,” reducing grand epic to light verse. Consequently, Poochigian utilized English rhymes and meters to successfully replicate the lyrical, song-like quality of the original texts.
The Reluctant Emperor: Rusticus, Koinonia, and Religious Zeal
Turning to the Meditations, the hosts ask Poochigian to define Marcus’s specific brand of Stoicism. The poet explains that Marcus was overwhelmingly influenced by Epictetus, focusing exclusively on ethics and the pursuit of the “good life” rather than logic or physics. For Marcus, the ultimate goal was “just action”; personal happiness was merely a fortunate byproduct of doing the right thing.
Unlike whitewashed, sanitized imperial autobiographies (such as the Res Gestae of Augustus), Marcus Aurelius never intended for the Meditations to be published. They were private philosophical notebooks. Consequently, Marcus is brutally honest about his own flaws, occasionally using vulgar slang, praising the free speech of Old Comedy playwrights like Aristophanes, and actively fighting against his own terrible temper.
This intimate honesty creates a fascinating historical tension. For the last eight years of his life, Marcus waged a brutal defensive war along the Danube River against Germanic tribes (like the Quadi) and their Sarmatian allies. How did a philosopher dedicated to the Koinonia—the “Human Commonwealth” uniting all mankind—reconcile himself to this violence? Poochigian notes it fulfilled the strict Stoic requirement to dutifully execute one’s career, and that Marcus viewed certain enemies as “savages” permanently divorced from the ethical boundaries of humanity. Rather than portraying him as a flawless saint or a callous prig, Marcus reveals himself as an earnest zealot with a deep religious devotion to Nature and the Logos.
Sponsors: Fueling the Classical Renaissance
Before diving into Poochigian’s specific translation theories, the hosts take a brief pause to extend their gratitude to the sponsors keeping the podcast operational.
- Hackett Publishing: For years, Hackett has supported the podcast by providing highly affordable, attractive translations from all corners of academia. Build your personal library at hackettpublishing.com and use the code AN2026 to receive a 20% discount and free shipping on your entire order.
- Ratio Coffee: Dave recently enjoyed a delicious iced coffee protein shake brewed effortlessly by his Ratio 4. Jeff, meanwhile, once traveled to Tucson, Arizona for a CAMWS conference, experiencing the liminal space of the desert—which predictably leads to a terrible joke about naming his horse “Lenny” in honor of the band America. Visit ratiocoffee.com/adnavseam and enter the promo code ANRATIO2026 to receive $20 off any machine.
- Della Chelpka Art: For breathtaking, custom oil paintings that capture cherished moments, visit dellachelpka.art. Enter the coupon code APELLES to receive 10% off your entire order and free shipping within the continental United States.
The Painted Parthenon: A Spiritual Medium
Returning to the interview, Poochigian outlines his unique theory of translation. Operating like a spiritual medium possessed by the original author, he sought to capture the genuine, unvarnished voice of the Roman Emperor.
Poochigian notes that traditional, archaic translations often present the Meditations in heightened, dispassionate English. He compares these older translations to the modern Parthenon—beautiful, but reduced to cold, aloof, white marble. In reality, the ancient Parthenon was gaudily painted with bright, flashy colors. So Poochigian aimed to deliver a translation in “living color,” avoiding the temptation to dumb down Marcus’s complex lists or strip away his fiery, passionate voice.
Death, CBT, and Inner Calm
Poochigian admits that he personally departs from Marcus on the subject of death. While he himself is terrified of dying, Marcus utilizes the specter of death to generate immense moral urgency. The Emperor constantly reminds himself that life is brief, demanding immediate, purposeful action in the present moment, warning himself not to become “Caesarified” or corrupted by imperial purple.
However, translating the text provided Poochigian with profound psychological relief. As a patient undergoing Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), he realized that modern therapy shares the fundamental thesis of ancient Stoicism. Both assert that a person’s happiness is entirely dependent on internal adjustments. External events and other people can only harm the body—an object of Stoic indifference—but they cannot harm the mind unless the individual permits it. Internalizing this philosophy made Poochigian a significantly happier person.
Before signing off to work on a new poetry collection slated for 2027, Aaron offers an encouraging word to aspiring classicists. He assures them they are engaged in an admirable pursuit, wrestling with the most important questions in human life, and urges them to carry on regardless of financial reward.
Housekeeping and The Gustatory Parting Shot
To officially close out Episode 215, the hosts remind listeners to visit latinperdiem.com to access comprehensive Greek and Latin courses, taking students from neophyte to erudite. Dave also highlights the new Calvin’s Latin Bible app on the Google Play store, featuring a fully recorded Latin New Testament.
The hosts extend their thanks to Mishka the sound engineer, and to guitar shredder Jeff Scheetz for providing the ripping “Thrillseeker” intro and the “Rush Hour” bumper music.
Dave then delivers the Gustatory Parting Shot, courtesy of the Stoic philosopher Seneca the Younger from Letter 18.
Regarding the hidden joys of fasting and deprivation, Seneca offers this highly ascetic observation:
“Barley porridge, or a crust of barley bread and water, do not make a very cheerful diet; but nothing gives one cleaner pleasure than having the ability to derive pleasure even from that, and the feeling of having arrived at something which one cannot be deprived of by any unjust stroke of fortune.”
Dave immediately connects this miserable barley porridge to Jeff’s absolute least favorite breakfast cereal: Grape-Nuts. He jokes that achieving true Stoic enlightenment means sitting down to a bowl of gravel-like Grape-Nuts, acknowledging that it tastes absolutely horrible, but deriving immense spiritual pleasure from the fact that no stroke of fortune could possibly make the meal any worse.Check out the “Lurch with Merch” section on the website to grab a QVAE NOCENT DOCENT t-shirt, beware of catching a rash in Alabama, and keep taking in the classics. Valete!
