Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 147 as they interview Dr. Kirk Summers. Discover the youthful poetry of Theodore Beza, the Renaissance obsession with Rome, and resources to master the Latin language.
Introduction: Chicken Curry and Carolinas
Welcome back, classical gourmands, to Episode 147 of the Ad Navseam Podcast! Broadcasting directly from the subterranean depths of Vomitorium South (the basement of the Reformation Heritage Books store), your hosts, Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe, return to the microphones for another delectable discussion of Greco-Roman civilization.
The episode kicks off with a quick trip to the mailbag. Dave delivers a heartfelt shout-out to listener Matthew Meiser, describing him as a generous fellow and an absolute “mensch” who works as an actual forester out in the woods of Pennsylvania.
We then get an amusing story about Dave’s recent culinary misadventures. While attempting to cook Caribbean chicken curry to honor his wife’s heritage, Dave grew deeply frustrated and considered quitting the meal entirely. Seeking advice, he asked his father what he should do. His dad perfectly replied, “Curry on, my wayward son”. Jeff groans at the glorious Kansas musical pun, acknowledging that the joke gave Dave the fortitude to finish the dish.
Catching up on recent travels, Dave shares that he visited the Veritas Preparatory School in Greenville, South Carolina. He spent a day and a half leading teacher in-services and teaching AP Latin students translating Julius Caesar’s De Bello Gallico. Impressed by the students’ sharp abilities, Dave even made one student run a celebratory “victory lap” around the classroom after providing an excellent translation.
Introducing Dr. Kirk Summers
The core academic focus of Episode 147 features a fantastic interview with Dr. Kirk Summers, a Professor of Classics at the University of Alabama, Birmingham (UAB). As Jeff points out, conducting an interview with a scholar from Alabama requires establishing crucial allegiances: Kirk quickly confirms he resides firmly in “Roll Tide” country.
Kirk is one of the world’s leading experts on Theodore Beza (1519-1605), the brilliant 16th-century Renaissance poet and Reformed theologian. However, Kirk’s journey to the classics began in the unlikely locale of Gulfport, Mississippi. Raised in a house filled with theology books by his Presbyterian minister father, Kirk took Latin in high school and eventually tackled Greek in college. He fondly remembers an “insane” professor who forced the class to read the entirety of Clyde Pharr’s Homeric Greek textbook in a single semester—a grueling trial that Kirk absolutely loved. After a brief stint in seminary, Kirk pursued graduate degrees in classical philology at the University of Nebraska and the University of Illinois before landing his position at UAB.
Discovering Theodore Beza
Dave asks Kirk how he initially discovered Theodore Beza. Kirk shares a fascinating anecdote: while sitting in his Homer professor’s office, a librarian walked in asking for help identifying a mysterious Latin text. The professor recognized it as the work of Theodore Beza and chided Kirk for not knowing who he was, especially considering Kirk’s extensive Calvinist background.
Kirk explains that while Beza was John Calvin’s direct successor, he remains obscure even among modern theologians. This historical amnesia occurred primarily because Beza wrote extensively in Latin. While the Puritans translated his heavy theological treatises, a vast amount of his humanist literature remained completely untouched. This created the perfect playground for a dedicated Latinist like Kirk to apply his linguistic superpower.
A View from the Palatine: Beza’s Poetry
Kirk eventually published a groundbreaking book titled A View from the Palatine: The Juvenilia of Theodore de Bèze. Kirk notes that he actually dislikes the traditional label “Juvenilia” (childish writings) because Beza was a mature 29 years old when he finally published the collection in 1548.
Dave and Kirk discuss the deeply Roman nature of Beza’s poetry. Kirk reads Beza’s introductory letter to Maclou Popon, where the young poet describes going to the Palatine in Paris to watch the “pageant of people’s lives as if I’m in a vast and spacious theater”. This framing directly alludes to the Roman poet Martial and the carnivalesque tradition of the Floralia and Saturnalia.
Kirk brilliantly explains that Renaissance readers understood love poetry not as strict autobiography, but as a histrionic vehicle to explore the entire spectrum of human emotion—from elation and obsession to anger and disgust. Dave and Jeff agree, noting that classifying ancient writers like Catullus or Ovid strictly as “love poets” completely misses the satirical mirror they held up to society.
Decius, Dido, and Cicero
The hosts then dive into specific poems from the collection. The very first piece in Beza’s Sylvae (occasional poems) recounts the heroic story of Publius Decius Mus, a Roman general who offered himself as a sacrifice to save his legions during a battle against the Latins. Kirk notes that this intense focus on self-sacrifice reveals a thoughtful, moral strain in Beza’s mind even before his official conversion to the Reformed faith.
Another fascinating poem acts as an epigram for the tragic figure of Dido. In the 1548 edition, Beza simply warns young girls to learn a lesson from Dido’s fiery death about the unreliability of men and the marriage bed. However, in later editions, Beza heavily modified the poem, explicitly stating that the moral lessons taught by “profane prophets” (like Vergil) should ultimately shame readers into learning the exact same truths directly from Scripture.
Jeff is particularly struck by Beza’s poetic range. The collection seamlessly transitions from Roman history, to a 73-line poem mourning the tragic death of Cicero, directly into a poem celebrating the birth of Christ (Natalia Domini). Kirk points out that for Renaissance humanists, there was no harsh dividing line; they viewed classical antiquity and Christian truth as part of one continuous, unbroken intellectual history.
Scandal, Apologies, and Annotations
Following a severe illness, Beza completely changed the trajectory of his life, fleeing Paris for Geneva and Lausanne in 1548. However, his new Calvinist colleagues led him to publicly apologize for the “lewd” nature of his previously published poetry.
Beza defended himself by reminding his critics that he was simply writing within the generic, accepted expectations of Roman poetry. Furthermore, he couldn’t have been engaging in the illicit affairs depicted in the poems because he was already secretly married to Claudine Denosse. Kirk explains that during this era, valid common-law marriages frequently took place in taverns with friends, requiring no massive, formal church ceremony.
Transitioning to his later theological work, Kirk highlights Beza’s masterpiece: his Latin translation and extensive annotations of the New Testament, which eventually heavily influenced the King James Version of the Bible. Kirk is currently translating Beza’s annotations on the Book of James, noting that Beza’s deep background in poetry gave him a unique obsession with imagery. Drawing on Aristotle’s theory of the soul, Beza believed that the human imagination was the precise faculty corrupted by the Fall, driving his intense desire to “paint pictures with words” to correct distorted theological images for his readers.
Before departing, Kirk offers excellent advice for students: keep a dedicated notebook of interesting phrases and words while translating ancient texts. Over the years, fascinating patterns will naturally emerge that reveal your true academic passions.
Sponsors: Fueling the Classical Renaissance
Dave and Jeff take a moment to thank the incredible sponsors keeping the bunker operational.
- Ratio Coffee: For a flawless morning ritual, abandon cheap machines that rely on wasteful, throwaway “marsupods”. Entrepreneur Mark Hellweg engineered the gorgeous Ratio 8 and Ratio 6 machines to deliver a pristine automated pour-over. Jeff and Dave eagerly anticipate the upcoming launch of the Ratio 4, a compact machine that offers pod-like convenience without sacrificing artisanal quality. Visit ratiocoffee.com and enter the promo code ANCO2D (the ‘D’ stands for Delirious) for 15% off your entire order.
- Hackett Publishing: Celebrating over 52 years of publishing excellence, Hackett produces highly accessible, erudite translations. Jeff shares a story about a student who praised Hackett’s highly affordable $7.99 edition of Stanley Lombardo’s Odyssey, contrasting it beautifully with her exorbitant $175 science textbooks. Build a phenomenal library at hackettpublishing.com and use the code AN2023 to receive a 20% discount and free shipping on your entire order.
- LatinPerDiem: For listeners inspired by Kirk’s linguistic prowess, Dave offers the perfect solution for mastering the Latin language. By visiting latinperdiem.com/llpsi, students can learn entirely from the ground up using Hans Ørberg’s renowned Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata curriculum. Dave also offers highly affordable masterclass audits, allowing students to study Cicero, Calvin, and Beza for just $75.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
To officially close out Episode 147, Jeff delivers a hilarious Gustatory Parting Shot courtesy of the legendary food comedian, Jim Gaffigan.
Taking aim at a famous Southern breakfast staple, Gaffigan offers this brilliant culinary critique:
“Of course you can’t talk about Southern food without bringing up grits, right? It was like someone said, ‘Hey, if you like biscuits and gravy, without the taste of biscuits and gravy, you’ll love our man-made wet sand.'”
A special thanks goes out to Mishka, the podcast’s hardworking sound engineer who manages everything from Zoom audio to lighting, and to Scott Van Zen and Ken Tamplin for providing the blistering guitar riffs and vocals. Keep your notebooks handy, beware of marsupods, and keep taking in the classics. Valete!
