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Soccer Tees, Socratic Ethics, and Plato’s Apology (Ad Navseam Ep. 190)

Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 190 as they finally tackle Plato’s Apology. Discover Socratic ethics, high-priced Sophists, and resources to master the Latin language.

Introduction: Omnivorous Appetites and Boomerang Ambulances

Welcome back, classical gourmands, to Episode 190 of the Ad Navseam Podcast! Broadcasting directly from the subterranean depths of Vomitorium Central, your hosts, Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle, return to the microphones for another delectable discussion of Greco-Roman civilization.

The episode begins with the hosts’ traditional middle-initial banter. Jeff decides his “T” stands for “Triage,” explaining that true classicists must take in the classics but exercise careful discretion regarding what they consume. Dave counters that his “C” stands for “Calibrated”. He argues that while a classical gourmand possesses an omnivorous appetite for philosophy and history, one must constantly calibrate that appetite to the occasion. Dave also attempts, and pulls off,  a solid pun, assuming that because they are discussing philosophy today, the episode must be about athletic jerseys—”Soccer tees”.

Opening the mailbag, Jeff reads a heartwarming letter from Caitlin Moore, an ambulance dispatcher residing in Sydney, Australia. Dave jokes that dispatching ambulances in Australia must be a “boomerang” service, since the vehicles are sent out only to come right back. Caitlin shares that she began learning the Latin language in a strict religious school and recently reconnected with it, traveling out to the idyllic Blue Mountains to read Vergil with her former high school teacher. Caitlin is now translating Ovid’s Metamorphoses and plans to tackle ancient Greek next.

Pronunciandums and Mistaken Identities

Before diving into philosophy, Dave issues a rather sour pronunciandum to correct the historical record. The correction arrives courtesy of frequent correspondent Will Fitzgerald, who offers a slightly snarky linguistic check. Fitzgerald points out that the hosts completely butchered the name of the Restoration playwright William Wycherley in a previous episode. He clarifies that the first syllable definitively rhymes with “witch,” proving that Dave and Jeff hit a few massive “bum notes” with their previous attempts.

Fitzgerald humorously concludes his message by asking what the most common mispronunciation of Dave’s last name (“Noe”) happens to be. Dave reveals that people typically just say the word “No,” but they also occasionally refer to him as “Donkey Head”. He also admits people frequently make James Bond villain jokes (“Dr. No”). Jeff commiserates, noting that while “Winkle” is rarely mispronounced, people frequently misread it. He recalls a devastating moment when the official program for the Classical Association of the Middle West and South (CAMWS) officially listed him as “Dr. Winky”.

Finally Tackling Plato

After 189 episodes of classical podcasting, Dave and Jeff finally decide to tackle the monumental heavyweight of ancient Greek philosophy: Plato.

Dave admits that he has deliberately left Plato untouched for so long out of sheer apprehension. While he holds a deep love for philosophy, his primary academic training is strictly classical philology; wandering into the deep waters of Platonic thought without “swimmies wrapped around your biceps” feels incredibly dangerous. Jeff agrees, noting that while he enjoys Apuleius and the later Neoplatonic movements, he also feels quite wary of dissecting the foundational texts.

To safely navigate these treacherous waters, the hosts rely on the phenomenal A Plato Reader, published by Hackett and edited by C.D.C. Reeve. Reading from Reeve’s excellent introduction, Dave sets the historical stage. Plato was born into the throes of the Athenian plague and the Peloponnesian War in 429 BC. Boasting a dazzling aristocratic pedigree connected to Solon and Pericles, Plato was fully expected to enter Athenian politics. However, following the unjust execution of his beloved teacher Socrates in 399 BC, a 28-year-old Plato abandoned politics entirely, turning to philosophy as the only true path to justice.

Unlike many ancient authors, Plato enjoyed incredible historical luck: every single one of his dialogues appears to have survived antiquity. Scholars traditionally divide these dialogues into early, middle, and late periods. The early dialogues feature the historical Socrates attempting to solve difficult ethical riddles, frequently ending in aporia (an unresolved state). By the late dialogues, the conversational format largely disappears, and Socrates essentially transforms into a mouthpiece for Plato’s own theories, monologuing endlessly like a supervillain.

Eudaimonist Ethics and the Grizzly Bear

Dave notes that Plato is our overwhelming primary source for the historical Socrates, supplemented only by Xenophon’s memoirs and the satirical mockery of Aristophanes. Relying on Gregory Vlastos’s famous book, Socrates, Ironist and Moral Philosopher, Dave explains that Socrates is the foundational author of eudaimonist ethics.

Eudaimonist ethics argues that the ultimate goal of human life is eudaimonia, commonly translated as “happiness”. A virtue—such as courage, wisdom, justice, or moderation—is simply a trait that directly contributes to achieving this happiness.

Jeff points out that the modern definition of “happiness” feels far too ephemeral, shallow, and temporary to capture this ancient concept. Eudaimonia represents a deeply rooted, internal state of being. The Stoics later developed this into apatheia (a state free from suffering), while the Epicureans chased ataraxia (a state of calm). Dave hilariously notes that a truly virtuous Stoic could maintain their internal happiness even while being roasted alive inside the brazen bull of Phalaris, or while having their head actively chewed on by a grizzly bear.

The Elenchus and Socratic Honesty

To test the virtues of his fellow citizens, Socrates utilized the elenchus, a method of intense, rigorous cross-examination. He would ask a confident person for their definition of a concept like “honesty,” and then systematically draw out all the mutually incompatible, deeply flawed ideas latent within their answer.

Dave finds the Socratic method endlessly fascinating because it exposes the deep substratum of dishonesty required to keep human society moving. He quotes the mighty Achilles from the Iliad: “Hateful to me is a man who says one thing and hides another in his heart”. In an ancient world filled with political danger—and a modern world filled with virtue signaling and cancel culture—people rarely say what they actually think. Socrates constantly searched for a genuinely honest interlocutor who possessed the courage to speak plainly, a quest that ultimately led to his execution.

The Apology: Sophists, Colts, and Five Minas

Diving directly into the Greek text of the Apology, Dave reads the brilliant opening lines of Socrates’ famous defense speech. Facing charges of corrupting the youth and introducing new gods, Socrates immediately addresses the jury of his peers.

Socrates admits that his accusers spoke so persuasively that he almost forgot who he was, yet he insists that almost nothing they said was true. He actively distances himself from the “clever speakers” of his day, the highly paid Sophists like Gorgias of Leontini. As Dave explains, Gorgias championed a radical, relativistic subjectivity: nothing exists, if it does exist you can’t know it, and if you know it you can’t communicate it.

Socrates absolutely refuses to be lumped in with these wealthy, traveling hucksters. To prove his point, he recounts a hilarious conversation with Callias, a wealthy Athenian who spent a massive fortune hiring Sophists to tutor his children. Socrates asks Callias a deceptively simple question: if his two sons were colts or calves, Callias would immediately hire an expert horse-breeder to train them. Since they are human beings, who is the expert in human virtue?

Callias confidently answers that he hired Evenus of Paros for the staggering fee of five minas. Dave and Jeff do some quick ancient math, calculating that five minas equates to roughly 500 days of labor—essentially demanding an $80,000 to $100,000 tuition fee. Socrates drippingly replies that if Evenus truly possesses the secret to human virtue, his exorbitant fee is an absolute bargain. Ultimately, Socrates argues that he himself does not possess this superhuman wisdom, perfectly setting the stage for the famous Oracle of Delphi’s pronouncement that no man is wiser than Socrates.

Sponsors: Fueling the Classical Renaissance

Before the De Beers diamond cartel bangs down the bunker doors regarding the podcast’s multifaceted puns, the hosts extend their immense gratitude to their generous sponsors.

The Gustatory Parting Shot

To officially wrap up Episode 190, Dave delivers a rather perplexing Gustatory Parting Shot courtesy of the famous American statesman, Benjamin Franklin.

Dave freely admits that he is not a massive fan of Franklin, nor does he fully agree with the sentiment of the quote:

“The discovery of a wine is a greater moment than the discovery of a constellation. The universe is too full of stars.”

Jeff laughs at the absolute absurdity of the statement. While a massive wine connoisseur might agree that discovering a new vintage trumps astronomy, Jeff proudly declares himself more of a “staroisseur” than a sommelier.

A special thanks goes out to Mishka the sound engineer, and to Jeff Scheetz for providing the blistering “Rush Hour” and “Thrillseeker” guitar riffs. Watch out for boomerang ambulances, seek out honest interlocutors, and keep taking in the classics. Valete!

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