Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 86 as they wade through the blood and tragedy of Vergil’s Aeneid Book II. From the chilling death of Laocoon to the brutal murder of Priam at the altar, explore the darkest moments of the fall of Troy. Plus, the truth about an R.E.M. song, Ovid’s lost tragedy, and the Latin language behind the horror.
Introduction: The Locus Amoenus of Swan Lake
Welcome back to the “Vomitorium,” listeners! It is Episode 86 of the Ad Navseam Podcast, and the setting could not be more peaceful. Broadcasting from Vomitorium East, your hosts, Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe, are looking out over the idyllic, newly named “Swan Lake”. With cygnets cruising the water and chasing geese, it is a veritable locus amoenus (a pleasant place)—which, as Dr. Noe points out, means something terrible is bound to happen, like perhaps a podcast.
Dr. Winkle is fresh off a trip to the “Windy Apple” (Chicago) to celebrate his son’s eighth-grade graduation. His son, an aspiring sculptor and claymation animator, requested a trip to the Art Institute of Chicago, where they spent a glorious five hours exploring the impressive Greco-Roman antiquities collection.
The Anecdote: Ten Years for Ovid’s Medea
Before diving into the fall of Troy, Dr. Noe shares a memorable anecdote from his grad school days at the University of Iowa around 1995. A visiting scholar named Vasily Rudich (a Yale professor from 1984-1995 and author of Political Dissidence Under Nero and Religious Dissent in the Roman Empire) came to campus. Over dinner, Rudich casually revealed that he had memorized the entirety of Aeneid Book II in the original Latin language, considering it the most gorgeous piece of poetry ever written.
Even more shockingly, Rudich claimed he would gladly give up ten years of his life just for the chance to read Ovid’s lost tragedy, Medea. Dr. Noe admits he probably wouldn’t lop ten years off his life for a book, though he would happily trade the cumulative hours he spent watching Blossom or Diff’rent Strokes reunion specials. Still, Rudich’s profound dedication to Roman poetry left a lasting impact on young Dr. Noe, planting the seed for his own lifelong love of Book II.
Shout-Out: The Tasmanian Poet
We travel from the Midwest to Oceania for this week’s listener shout-out. It goes to Rodney Crume from Hobart, Tasmania. Rodney wrote in with the soul of a poet, painting a picture of his current southern hemisphere winter: “Picture snow-capped mountains and pedestrians shivering in the rain, rather than the palm trees and sun-kissed beaches”. While Dr. Noe (who deals with eight feet of Michigan snow) struggles to muster deep sympathy for rain, the hosts are incredibly grateful for their first Tasmanian listener. To Rodney: Macte virtute!
The Opening Quote: The Intarsia of Priam’s Death
Dr. Winkle selects an opening quote from Robert Sklenar’s 1990 article in Hermes titled “The Death of Priam”. Sklenar argues that the death of the Trojan king is a Vergilian masterpiece that critics often treat with “more reverence than attention”.
“Most tend to exhaust themselves in a chaotic search for a single unifying problem… the symbolism that identifies Priam as the corporeal expression of his kingdom invites further questions about the significance of Neoptolemus as Priam’s foil, of Aeneas as narrator, of Hecuba… All of these things are not isolated matters, but part of a thematic intarsia whose elaborate beauty still awaits full appreciation.”
What is an “intarsia”? The hosts explain it is a complex, inlaid woodworking technique where different pieces are sanded and fitted together to create an elaborate pattern—much like the famous parquet floor of the Boston Garden. Vergil’s poetry operates the same way, layering multiple perspectives (Aeneas watching helplessly, Pyrrhus raging, Hecuba mourning) to create a scene of devastating depth.
The Psychology of Aeneas: The Rodney Dangerfield of Troy
As the destruction of Troy begins, Aeneas spends much of the book on the knife-edge of indecision, running frantically through the dark city. It requires the ghost of Hector and, later, the ghost of his wife to finally convince him to take leadership and flee.
Why is Aeneas so hesitant to take charge? Dr. Noe points back to Homer’s Iliad Book 13, where the Trojan Deiphobus finds Aeneas standing at the back of the crowd. Homer tells us that Aeneas “always resented Priam for not showing him enough respect”. Aeneas was essentially the “Rodney Dangerfield” of the Trojans, fully aware he was as good as Hector but denied the glory. Vergil masterfully adopts this psychology, forcing leadership upon a man who never expected to hold it.
The Snakes, The Statue, and R.E.M.
The horror officially begins with Laocoon. While the priest is sacrificing a bull to Neptune, twin sea serpents glide from the island of Tenedos (foreshadowing the path the Greek fleet will soon take). With eyes shot with blood and fire, the serpents entwine Laocoon’s two sons, Antiphantes and Thymbraeus, before seizing Laocoon himself.
This gruesome scene leads to two fascinating cultural tangents:
- The R.E.M. Connection: Dr. Winkle, a massive fan of the 90s alternative band R.E.M., spent 25 years baffled by their 1982 song “Laughing”. In it, Michael Stipe sings about “Laocoon and her two sons”. Dr. Winkle finally found an interview where Stipe admitted he just changed the gender “for the fun of it,” leaving Dr. Winkle deeply disappointed that there wasn’t a profound literary reason.
- The Vatican Masterpiece: The famous Hellenistic statue of the Laocoon Group was excavated in Rome in 1506. Michelangelo was present and was so deeply moved by the writhing, muscular agony of the Trojan priest that he used Laocoon as the visual model for Christ in his Last Judgment fresco in the Sistine Chapel.
The Horse Enters: Moving the Ultimate Couch
Because the Trojans foolishly view Laocoon’s death as divine punishment for striking the wooden horse, they decide to drag the offering inside. Dr. Noe highlights a brilliant logistical detail: the horse is too big for the gates, forcing the Trojans to dismantle their own defensive walls to bring it in. It is the ancient, deadly equivalent of trying to pivot a massive couch into a second-floor apartment—a brutal feat of geometry.
That night, the Greeks slide down a rope from the horse’s womb, including Ulysses, Neoptolemus, and Epeos (the fabricator of the horse itself). They slaughter the sleeping guards and open the gates for the returning fleet.
Friendly Fire and the Failure of Trojan Deceit
Waking to the chaos, the Trojans make a desperate, fatal mistake. A warrior named Coroebus suggests they strip the armor from dead Greeks and disguise themselves, asking, “Who cares if this is deceit or valor?”
It backfires horribly. The Trojans end up suffering massive friendly fire from their own men. Dr. Noe points out that the noble but naive Trojans are simply incapable of successfully executing the treacherous, snake-like trickery of the Greeks. Even absolute piety cannot save them; Panthus, a priest of Apollo, is killed by the Greeks despite wearing the sacred fillet (headband) marking him as untouchable.
Then comes the gut-wrenching sight of Cassandra, Priam’s prophetess daughter, being dragged from the shrine of Minerva. Her tender hands are bound, and her hair trails in the dust as Aeneas watches, completely frozen by a nightmare-like torpor.
The Monster Pyrrhus and the Death of Priam
The book reaches its darkest nadir in the palace of Priam. Here we meet Neoptolemus (also known as Pyrrhus), the sociopathic son of Achilles. While Achilles’ rage in the Iliad was anchored to the death of his beloved Patroclus, Pyrrhus’s violence is pure, unadulterated bloodlust. He is the embodiment of the war’s ability to turn a man into a monster.
Priam, the elderly king, pathetically puts on his old trophy armor to defend his family. Pyrrhus slaughters one of Priam’s sons right before his eyes. When Priam bravely rebukes Pyrrhus—reminding him that even Achilles had the humanity to return Hector’s body—Pyrrhus responds with dripping, dark sarcasm.
He tells Priam to deliver a message to Achilles in the underworld: “Be sure to tell him about my sad behavior and how degenerate his son has become”.
Pyrrhus then grabs the old king by the hair, dragging him through the slipping, pooling blood of his own son, and buries his sword to the hilt in Priam’s side right upon the sacred altar. It is a complete and total perversion of religious sacrifice, marking the ultimate, irreversible death of Troy.
Sponsors: Fuel for the Classical Renaissance
To recover from the profound horrors of war, the hosts take a moment to thank the sponsors that make navigating the Latin language possible:
- Ratio Coffee: Dr. Winkle is in love with his new Ratio 8 coffee maker. Featuring walnut accents, stainless steel construction, and a hand-blown borosilicate glass carafe, his son accurately described it as the “Millennium Falcon” of brewers. It flawlessly executes the crucial “bloom” stage to off-gas carbon dioxide. Visit ratiocoffee.com and use code ANCO89 for 15% off.
- Hackett Publishing: For affordable, high-quality translations that don’t skimp on scholarship, Hackett is the gold standard. Dr. Noe jokes that “affordable” usually means generic peanut butter laced with chalk, but Hackett threads the needle perfectly. Get 20% off and free shipping at hackettpublishing.com with code AN2022.
- Pop City Popcorn: Based in Kalamazoo, Michigan, Pop City delivers the perfect podcast snack. Unlike generic brands that use cellulose (literal sawdust) to prevent caking, they use real Parmesan cheese and offer incredible flavors like Bacon Cheddar and Butter Rum. Visit popcitypopcorn.com and use code ANPOP20 for 20% off your first order.
- The Moss Method: Want to read the Greek epics that inspired Vergil? Dr. Noe will take you from “neophyte to erudite” for $325. Sign up at mossmethod.com and join the weekly “Moffice Hours” to read text live.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
With Helen and Creusa still waiting in the wings of Book II, the hosts promise to return to the burning city next week. To send us off, Dr. Winkle shares a highly practical Gustatory Parting Shot from Justin Swap’s The Shadow Servant:
“You never cook onions with your beans. That’s a recipe for tear gas.”
Wise words for any era. Valete!
Resources for the Classical Learner:Latin Per Diem: Ready to read about the death of Priam in the original Latin language? Visit latinperdiem.com to start mastering the grammar of the Aeneid today!
