Meta Description: Join Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle in Ad Navseam Episode 207 as they brave the bitter cold to discuss H.I. Marrou and the intense world of Hellenistic philosophy. From the “tub-thumpers” on the street corners to the drunken conversion of Polemon, discover why ancient philosophy was a lifestyle, not just a class. Plus, learn the Latin language of the tribon and the scholarch.
Introduction: I Want to Know What Glove Is
Welcome back to the “Vomitorium,” listeners! We have arrived at Episode 207 of the Ad Navseam Podcast. Your hosts, Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle, are broadcasting from their final resting place—”Vomitorium Central,” or perhaps “The Bunker,” or maybe just “Parnassus.” The geography is a bit fuzzy after 200 episodes, but the commitment to the classics remains rock solid.
The atmosphere in the studio is frigid. With “bitter cold” rolling in, Dr. Noe has resorted to wearing mittens around the house. This has led to a significant loss of dexterity—opening a ketchup bottle is impossible, and typing is a nightmare . But it has also inspired a musical epiphany. Dr. Noe recounts a spiritual journey to a clothing store where he met Lou Gramm of Foreigner and burst into a parody song:
“I want to know what glove is… I want you to show me.”
It’s a long road for a pun, but that is the Ad Navseam way. Once the musical stylings are over, the hosts settle in to discuss H.I. Marrou’s A History of Education in Antiquity, specifically Part 2, Chapter 11, on the rigorous and sometimes rowdy world of Philosophy.
Housekeeping: Winners and Corrections
Before diving into the ancient schools, we have some important business.
- The Winner: Congratulations to Matt McCravy, who won the beautiful slip-cased set of Aristotle from Hackett Publishing. Enjoy your “McCravy and biscuits”.
- New Contest: We are giving away another Aristotle set (sans slipcase). To enter, email dave@adnavseam.com with the subject line “KONTOS” (referring to editor Pavlos Kontos). It’s a great way for Dave to memorize the name.
- Corrigenda: We have some errors to correct from previous episodes.
- Lovey Howell (from Gilligan’s Island) was played by Natalie Schafer, not Natalie French.
- Isaac Casaubon was called to the court of James VI, not Edward VI . Accuracy matters, even when discussing 1960s sitcoms.
Anecdotes from the Classroom
Dr. Winkle shares two bizarre moments from his return to the classroom this week:
- Chaos and Rage: When asked about his favorite god, a student chose Ares. Why? Not just for the chaos, but for the “chaos and the rage.” Apparently, it’s the combination that really seals the deal.
- The Eye Color: A student waited in line for 15 minutes after class just to tell Dr. Winkle, “You have the same color eyes as my girlfriend,” before delivering a fist bump and walking out. It is, as the hosts agree, “beyond strange”.
Marrou on Philosophy: A Way of Life
Turning to the text, the hosts explore Marrou’s thesis that in the Hellenistic world, philosophy wasn’t just a subject; it was a conversion.
“Philosophy was a minority culture for an intellectual elite prepared to make the necessary effort… It was also an ideal of life that claimed the whole man.”
To be a philosopher meant adopting a new way of life. It required “ascetic effort.” You dressed differently, wearing the tribon (a short, coarse cloak that Dr. Noe likens to a “crop-top hoodie”). You ate differently. You behaved differently . The most extreme examples were the Cynics (the “dog philosophers”), who never washed, never cut their hair, and lived on alms. Dr. Noe recalls similar hygiene standards in his college dorm, but for the ancients, it was a statement of profound separation from polite society.
The Conversion of Polemon
This “conversion” to philosophy was often dramatic and sudden, similar to a religious experience. Marrou retells the famous story of Polemon. Polemon was a young man living a life of debauchery. One day, he burst into the lecture hall of Xenocrates while drunk, wearing a party crown on his head after an orgy. Instead of kicking him out, Xenocrates kept lecturing on temperance. He spoke so persuasively that Polemon was sobered up on the spot. He tore off his garland, renounced his lifestyle, and eventually became the head of the Academy himself. It is a classic “sinner to saint” narrative, paralleling stories like St. Augustine’s conversion in the garden. It highlights that philosophy was about saving your soul, not just sharpening your mind.
The Three Types of Teachers
Marrou categorizes the teaching of philosophy into three distinct forms:
- The Schools (Confraternities): These were organized institutions with a succession of leaders (scholarchs). Plato chose Speusippus, who chose Xenocrates, who chose Polemon. It was a dynasty of wisdom (with very strange names).
- The Freelancers: Isolated teachers like Epictetus, who set up shop in Nicopolis after being exiled. They hung out a shingle and taught anyone who came, much like modern independent consultants.
- The Tub-Thumpers: These were the street preachers and wandering Cynics who would stand on corners and harangue passersby. They hurled insults, exchanged “backchat,” and delivered diatribes. Dr. Noe compares them to modern YouTube influencers or campus provocateurs with “Change My Mind” signs. They weren’t professors of higher learning, but they certainly got attention.
Curriculum: From Water to Fire
What did they actually teach?
Students usually started with the history of philosophy, specifically the Pre-Socratics of Ionia.
- Thales: Everything is Water.
- Heraclitus: Everything is Fire. Dr. Winkle imagines a “throwdown” between the Water-bender Thales and the Fire-bender Heraclitus. Interestingly, Marrou notes that ancient students—much like modern ones—often didn’t know much more than these basic tags.
From there, they moved to the specific doctrines of their school. Marrou mentions Apuleius and Albinus as examples of Middle Platonism, where the lines between schools began to blur, and philosophy became more technical and scholarly—sometimes degenerating into mere “philology,” as Seneca complained.
The Teacher-Student Bond: Educative Eros
One of the most striking aspects of ancient philosophy was the intense bond between master and pupil.
“The philosopher was expected to be much more than a teacher. He was expected to be guide, philosopher, and friend.”
The teaching wasn’t just delivered from a podium; it was imbibed through “common life.” The student often felt a “passionate” attachment to the master, described by the archaic term “educative eros.” It was a relationship that went far beyond the professional distance of a modern university, resembling a familial or even spiritual bond.
Geography: Athens, Rhodes, and the Rowdy Boys
While Athens remained the headquarters of philosophy (Plato’s Academy, Aristotle’s Lyceum), other centers emerged. Rhodes became a major university center, famous for its schools of grammar (Dionysius Thrax) and philosophy (Posidonius). Dr. Noe jokes that “All roads lead to Rhodes”.
However, student life in Athens wasn’t all high-minded dialogue. Marrou describes a “Latin Quarter” atmosphere where students were “rowdy, lawless, carefree, and frivolous.” They played ball games, obsessed over horse racing, and played “feeble practical jokes” on their professors. It seems Revenge of the Nerds has ancient antecedents. Yet, amidst the wasters, there were serious students like St. Gregory of Nazianzus and St. Basil, who managed to get a real education despite the chaos.
Sponsors: Fuel for Your Dialectic
This deep dive into the ancient curriculum is brought to you by:
- Hackett Publishing: For the Complete Works of Aristotle (edited by Reeve and Kontos). It’s the essential text for any aspiring scholarch.
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The Gustatory Parting Shot
We conclude this rigorous episode with a thought from Mehmet Murat Ildan. It is a sentiment that emphasizes community over the solitary asceticism of the Cynics:
“Eating is happiness only when all others are also eating and when no one is left hungry.”
Valete! (And good luck with those mittens).
Resources for the Latin Learner:Latin Per Diem: Want to take your skills from “Neophyte to Erudite”? Check out Dr. Noe’s courses at latinperdiem.com. Use code 10PLUS for 10% off.
