Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 171 as they explore Ovidian vignettes, the horrors of autophagy, and resources to master the Latin language.
Introduction: Thorax, Caput, and the New Bunker
Welcome back, classical gourmands, to Episode 171 of the Ad Navseam Podcast! Broadcasting from their brand-new basement studio, your hosts, Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle, return to the microphones.
The episode opens with the hosts examining their new digs. Having officially vacated the premises of Vomitorium South, they announce they have returned to the geographical center of their operation, broadcasting from either Vomitorium Central or Vomitorium North. This return to the middle prompts a nostalgic acknowledgment that the podcast originally began just upstairs from their current location, recorded underneath a bedspread with two stools.
The banter shifts to the hosts’ middle initials. Prompted to provide an absurd meaning for his middle initial “T”, Jeff selects “Thorax”. Keeping with the anatomical and slightly morbid theme, Dave decides his middle initial “C” stands for “Caput”.
Setting the table for the episode, Dave announces a return to one of their favorite recurring authors: the Roman poet Ovid. The hosts note they have dedicated seven or eight previous episodes to Ovid’s Metamorphoses, exploring classical myths spanning from the flight of Icarus and the golden touch of Midas, to the vegetarianism of Pythagoras and the great flood of Deucalion. Boasting fifteen books and over 250 mythological stories, Ovid remains a treasure house of material.
Housekeeping: The Ratio 4 Giveaway
Before diving into the Latin poetry, the hosts address some podcast housekeeping regarding a major giveaway.
They are offering listeners a chance to win a brand-new Ratio 4 coffee maker, courtesy of Mark Hellweg and the entrepreneurs at Ratio Coffee in Portland, Oregon. Both hosts currently use the machine; Jeff keeps a Ratio 4 in his office to enjoy a fresh cup before his morning classes, while Dave brews from his Ratio 8 at home. Dave recommends upgrading from the standard smoky glass carafe to the robust thermal carafe for maximum heat retention.
To enter the giveaway, listeners must email Dave with a secret code word. The hosts agree to keep the code word hidden until the end of the episode. The drawing is officially scheduled for March 26, where a random number generator will select the winner.
The Fantham Quote and Allegorical Personages
To frame the academic discussion, Dave reads from Elaine Fantham’s 2004 book, Ovid’s Metamorphoses. Fantham discusses Ovid’s use of allegorical personages.
She notes that prior to Ovid, epic poetry offered only brief, functional sketches of non-human abstractions. For example, Homer depicts Strife striding into battle alongside Ares in the Iliad, and later portrays Prayers as wrinkled, lame daughters of Zeus who follow in the wake of swift, ruinous Madness.
Ovid takes this Homeric technique and expands it cinematically. To punish the blasphemous king Erysichthon, the goddess Ceres summons Hunger (Fames). Because a goddess of agriculture cannot risk physical contact with starvation, Ceres dispatches a nymph in a flying serpent chariot to the icy, barren steppes of Scythia to deliver the message. Fantham describes Hunger grubbing up roots with her bare nails, hollow-eyed, emaciated, and possessing a hole where her stomach should be. The aura of starvation is so infectious that the messenger nymph begins to feel famished simply by standing near her, prompting a hasty retreat.
The Earth Ripper and the Sacred Oak
Jeff selected the story of Erysichthon from Book 8 because it reads like a gruesome horror story. Erysichthon, the King of Thessaly, marches into a sacred grove dedicated to Ceres and takes an axe to a massive, ancient oak tree.
The poet Callimachus originally wrote that Erysichthon needed the lumber to build an elaborate feasting hall. Ovid notably omits this detail. By removing the practical motive, Ovid frames the deforestation as an act of pure, capricious sacrilege. Erysichthon cuts the tree down merely to show the gods that he answers to no higher authority. The sacred oak is immense—measuring fifteen arm lengths in circumference—and is adorned with votive tablets and wreaths indicating answered prayers. When a pious servant attempts to intervene, Erysichthon beheads the man with his axe.
Jeff compares this wanton destruction to a modern event known as the “Lake Forest Chainsaw Massacre”. In the late 1980s, the actor Mr. T purchased an estate in Lake Forest, Illinois, and proceeded to clear-cut sixty to seventy mature trees on his property. When the local city council expressed outrage, Mr. T defended his actions by claiming property rights, functioning as the real-world antithesis of Dr. Seuss’s Lorax. Like Erysichthon, he required no specific reason to rev up the chainsaw.
Autophagy and Shapeshifters
Following the desecration of the grove, the horrified dryads petition Ceres for justice. Following Ceres’ orders, the personification of Hunger travels to Thessaly and infects Erysichthon while he sleeps.
He awakes with an insatiable, ruinous greed. The curse operates with a cruel irony: the more Erysichthon eats, the deeper his starvation becomes. Jeff compares this condition to the “subtraction stew” found in the children’s book The Phantom Tollbooth, where consuming the meal leaves the diner hungrier than before.
Driven to absolute desperation, Erysichthon sells all his worldly possessions to purchase food. When his treasury runs dry, he sells his own daughter, Mestra, into slavery. Mestra begs her former lover, the sea god Poseidon, for deliverance. Poseidon grants her the ability to shapeshift, allowing her to escape her buyers by transforming into a fisherman or a beggar. Rather than saving her, Erysichthon exploits her new power, selling her repeatedly in various forms to fund his grocery bills. Eventually, the shapeshifting scheme fails to keep pace with his appetite, and Erysichthon resorts to autophagy—devouring his own limbs until nothing remains.
A Lamentation of Swans
For the second vignette, Dave transitions to Book 12 to discuss Cygnus (Cycnus). Like Erysichthon, Cygnus is a son of Poseidon/Neptune, but his story centers on battlefield combat rather than agricultural sacrilege.
During the Greek landing at Troy, Achilles cuts a bloody swath through the Trojan defenders until he encounters Cygnus. Achilles hurls his heavy spear, but the weapon merely bounces off. Cygnus reveals that he is invulnerable. He boasts that his helmet and shield are merely decorative “bling,” mocking Achilles by stating that a son of Neptune requires no armor to survive.
Frustrated by the invulnerable Trojan, Achilles tackles Cygnus to the ground. Utilizing the heavy edge of his shield, Achilles beats him back, unbuckles his helmet strap, and strangles Cygnus to death. However, when Achilles attempts to strip the armor as a battlefield trophy, he finds the suit completely empty. Neptune has transformed his son into a swan, allowing him to fly away.
Dave notes this deprives Achilles of his rightful “swag,” comparing the hero’s frustration to attending an academic conference, like the Society for Classical Studies, and leaving without a complimentary thumb drive or mousepad. Elaine Fantham notes that this early combat sequence seals Achilles’ own doom; furious over the death of his son, Neptune conspires with Apollo to guide Paris’s cowardly arrow directly into Achilles’ heel later in the war. The hosts also discover during the segment that a group of swans is poetically referred to as a “lamentation”.
Sponsors: Fueling the Classical Renaissance
Before sharing the parting shot, Jeff and Dave extend their gratitude to the sponsors keeping the bunker operational.
- Hackett Publishing: For 54 years, Hackett Publishing has delivered high-quality, affordable texts to the reading public. The hosts highly recommend Stanley Lombardo’s vigorous translation of the Metamorphoses, as well as Z. Philip Ambrose’s translation. Build a personal library at hackettpublishing.com and use the code AN2025 to receive a 20% discount and free shipping on your entire order.
- Ratio Coffee: Avoid the thin gruel of cheap, plastic drip machines by upgrading to an heirloom-quality brewer from Ratio Coffee. Founder Mark Helweg brings the timeless quality and repairability of Italian espresso machines to the drip coffee market. Visit ratiocoffee.com/adnavseam and enter the promo code ANRATIO2025 for a discount on your order.
- LatinPerDiem & MossMethod: For listeners inspired to master the Latin language and ancient Greek, Dave offers tailored educational solutions. Visit mossmethod.com for Greek, or latinperdiem.com for master classes on Cicero and Beza, or to access over 2,100 free instructional videos.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
To close out Episode 171, Dave reveals the secret code word for the Ratio 4 giveaway. Listeners should email dave@adnavseam.com with the subject line quattuor—the Latin word for four.
The podcast concludes with a shout-out to Mishka the sound engineer for her rapid turnaround times, as well as musical gratitude extended to Scott Van Zen and Ken Tamplin for the upbeat, screaming guitar arpeggios that bookend the academic lectures. The hosts also tease an upcoming interview with British scholar Peter Sarris regarding his biography of the Roman Emperor Justinian.
Jeff then delivers a Gustatory Parting Shot courtesy of the French Enlightenment philosopher, Voltaire.
Regarding frozen desserts, Voltaire offers this concise observation:
“Ice cream is exquisite. What a pity it isn’t illegal.”
Check out the “Lurch with Merch” section on the website, beware of chopping down sacred trees, and keep taking in the classics. Valete!
