Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 161 as they interview Diane Arnsen Svarlien about translating Aristophanes, Greek meter, and resources to master the Latin language.
Introduction: Arctic Silver and the Autumnal Equinox
Welcome back, classical gourmands, to Episode 161 of the Ad Navseam Podcast! Broadcasting from the subterranean depths of the bunker, your hosts, Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle, return to the microphones.
The episode opens with Dave expressing concern over Jeff’s somber, “arctic silver” tone of voice. Jeff assures him the gloomy disposition is unintended, though he admits he is currently dodging a household plague. With his entire family suffering from a severe stomach and head flu, Jeff feels the proverbial sword of Damocles—or rather, the sword of Robitussin—dangling directly over his head. Dave wisely suggests they avoid shaking hands.
Despite the looming illness, the hosts celebrate the shifting seasons. Having passed the autumnal equinox, the endless summer heat is finally yielding to cool, rainy weather, prompting Dave to ask if Jeff has opened a vein of pumpkin spice in his front yard yet. Jeff also shares a positive update from the classroom, noting his students are highly engaged in a brand-new course he is teaching on Greco-Roman archaeology.
Corrigendum: The Tom Flynn Distinction
Before introducing their esteemed guest, the hosts address a necessary corrigendum from the mailbag. In a previous episode regarding American hot springs, the hosts theorized that the famous Saratoga Springs was located in Florida.
Frequent podcast correspondent Will Fitzgerald contacted them to issue a geographical correction: Saratoga Springs, known for its horse racing and historic bathing sites, is situated in the state of New York. Dave jokes that Will is attempting to achieve the “Tom Flynn distinction”—a reference to their Australian listener who frequently catches their errors—by living rent-free in their heads. The hosts accept the correction, noting that having the tables turned on them keeps them humble.
Latin Camp and the Path to Classics
The core of Episode 161 features an interview with classicist and translator Diane Arnsen Svarlien. Joining the podcast from Lexington, Kentucky, Diane returns to the show after a previous appearance where she read from Alcestis and received a gift certificate to a local wine store from the podcast’s apprentices. Dave and Diane reminisce about their shared history, noting they originally met at the Conventiculum Latinum (Latin camp) in Lexington during the 2005 and 2009 sessions, sharing a memorable trip to a Subway restaurant alongside the late scholar David Morgan.
When asked about her path to the classics, Diane credits a family friend, Eric Hansen, who suggested she study ancient Greek when she arrived at the University of Virginia. Having enjoyed reading Aeschylus and Sophocles in her high school AP English class, she took the advice and eventually double-majored in English and Classics, spurred on by the encouragement of her classmate, Daniel Mendelson.
Diane pursued graduate studies at the University of Texas at Austin. She fondly recalls the large, vibrant department and her daily routine of reading Homer out loud in the office of Professor Gareth Morgan, a practice that ingrained the rhythm of dactylic hexameter into her mind. She also credits Douglas Parker’s translation workshop for inspiring her career, noting the class focused on practical, workshop-style critiques of translated poetry rather than dense translation theory.
Translating Aristophanes: Fidelity and Relaxed Eyebrows
Diane recently completed translations of three plays by Aristophanes—Lysistrata, Thesmophoriazusae, and Frogs—set to be published in a single volume by Hackett Publishing.
Discussing her approach to translation, Diane emphasizes fidelity to the original text while ensuring the language works for a live theatrical audience. Because a stage production cannot rely on footnotes to explain complex jokes, the humor must translate into genuine laughter.
To achieve a natural, colloquial tone in dialogue, Diane avoids the clunky, literal rendering of Greek compound adjectives. For instance, in the opening scene of Lysistrata, she translates the Greek word skutropon (a scowly expression) into the idiomatic phrase “relax your eyebrows”. This choice maintains the conversational register required for stage actors.
Greek Meter and the Lost Little Oil Flask
A major challenge in translating Greek drama is the structural reality that every single line is metrical verse. While modern readers often assume only high epics possess strict meter, Aristophanes employs diverse, complex rhythms, including iambic trimeter, anapestic tetrameter, and trochaic tetrameter, often stretching for long dialogue sequences.
Diane explains her method for capturing this musicality. She typically translates Greek iambic trimeter into English iambic pentameter, noting that the ten-syllable English structure naturally mirrors everyday speech.
This metrical precision becomes vital in Frogs, where the deceased playwrights Aeschylus and Euripides engage in a fierce literary contest in the underworld. Aeschylus attacks the predictable, formulaic nature of Euripides’s prologues by repeatedly interrupting his recitations with the phrase “lost his little oil flask” (lekythion apolesen). Diane points out the joke operates on two levels: it exposes Euripides’s repetitive syntactic structures, and it relies on a metrical “resolution”—using two short syllables instead of one long syllable—a poetic license Euripides frequently employed in his later career. Without a verse translation, the technical rhythm of this ancient joke is lost.
Aristophanes also deploys nonsense phrases like flatto-thratto-flatto-thrat to mock the musical style of Aeschylus, showcasing his willingness to utilize both high-brow literary criticism and low-brow absurdity.
Misogyny and the Notional Audience
The hosts ask Diane how she navigates the misogyny and offensive material inherent in ancient Greek comedy. Diane admits certain scenes remain difficult. She points to the ending of Thesmophoriazusae, where the characters mock an enslaved foreigner and resolve the plot by handing him a prostitute, describing the sequence as morally problematic.
Regarding gender dynamics, she notes the central premise of Thesmophoriazusae relies on the women of Athens despising Euripides for his harsh portrayals of female characters like Phaedra. Conversely, Diane views the titular character of Lysistrata as a rare, genuinely admirable protagonist who devises an ingenious scheme to end the Peloponnesian War, leaving the female characters looking far superior to their male counterparts.
This raises a classic scholarly debate: were women allowed in the ancient theater to watch these plays?. Diane sides with the camp that believes women were present, noting that theatrical competitions occurred during religious festivals, which traditionally permitted female public participation. She also points out that the premise of Thesmophoriazusae makes little sense if women had no firsthand knowledge of Euripides’s plays. While the “notional audience” of a patriarchal society defaults to male, Aristophanes expected his diverse crowd to possess deep literary knowledge, explicitly stating in Frogs that his audience owned books. However, to ensure broad appeal, he frequently mixed his elite literary parodies with universal fart jokes.
When asked for her final advice to students, Diane encourages learners to experience the languages as poetry, focusing on the sound and rhythm of the hexameters rather than treating the texts purely as mathematical translation exercises.
Sponsors: Fueling the Classical Renaissance
Before signing off, the hosts extend their gratitude to the sponsors keeping the podcast operational.
- Ratio Coffee: Dave and Jeff continue to rely on their Ratio 8 machines for their morning routines, praising the one-touch system and the heavy borosilicate glass carafes. They also note the upcoming release of the agile Ratio 4. Visit ratiocoffee.com and enter the promo code ANCOH5 for a discount on your order.
- Hackett Publishing: The hosts praise Hackett for publishing Diane’s new Aristophanes volume, noting the book features clever cover art, maps, indices, and comprehensive notes by scholar Ian Storey. In celebration of the release, the podcast is giving away copies of the book; listeners can enter the drawing by checking the podcast’s Facebook, Instagram, or X (Twitter) accounts. Build a personal library at hackettpublishing.com and use the code AN2024 to receive a 20% discount and free shipping.
- LatinPerDiem & MossMethod: For listeners inspired to read classical texts in their original meters, Dave offers tailored educational solutions. Students can visit mossmethod.com to learn Greek, or explore latinperdiem.com/llpsi to master the Latin language from the ground up. The platform also features master classes on authors like Juvenal, Calvin, Beza, Erasmus, and Cicero. Use the code 10PLUS to receive a 10% discount on any course.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
To officially close out Episode 161, the hosts note they are not fleeing the bunker from any angry societies or bad puns this week; they simply need to move on. They thank Mishka the sound engineer, noting she recently returned from a trip to the Greek island of Aegina, where she stylishly wore the podcast’s QVAE NOCENT DOCENT t-shirt in front of a temple. Musical gratitude is extended to Scott Van Zen and Ken Tamplin for providing the intro, outro, and bumper music. Next week, the hosts plan to tackle Carl Richard’s chapter on democracy.
Jeff then delivers the Gustatory Parting Shot, courtesy of the great American author Mark Twain.
Regarding dietary discipline, Twain offers this pragmatic advice:
“The secret to success in life is eating whatever you want and letting the food fight it out on the inside.”
Check out the “Lurch with Merch” section on the website, beware of the sword of Robitussin, and keep taking in the classics. Valete!
