Meta Description: Join Dr. Jeff Winkle and Dr. David Noe in Ad Navseam Episode 173 as they explore antebellum pastoralism, the utilitarian assault on classical education, and resources to master the Latin language.
Introduction: Pensive Moods and Flim Stream
Welcome back, classical gourmands, to Episode 173 of the Ad Navseam Podcast! Broadcasting directly from Vomitorium Central—their very own subterranean Delphi and Parnassus—your hosts, Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle, return to the microphones.
The episode opens with the hosts evaluating their current psychological states. Dave admits he is feeling highly pensive, stuck with an apocalyptic musical earworm from Johnny Cash’s “The Man Comes Around”. Jeff notes that the tendency to listen to an excellent song over and over is a profoundly human trait. Meanwhile, Jeff confesses he is suffering from a mild case of the winter blues, blaming the infamous groundhog “Doobie Mitchell” (or rather, Punxsutawney Phil) for predicting a few more weeks of dreary weather.
Seeking an escape, Jeff announces his upcoming spring break plans. He will be dragging a stack of true crime books down to a cabin situated on “Flim Stream” in Hocking Hills, Ohio. Dave jokes that a place named Hocking Hills sounds like it was exclusively designed for spitting and aggressively clearing one’s throat, but Jeff assures him it is a place renowned for its wild natural beauty and sylvan goodness.
Correspondence: The Voyage of Don Cheadle
Before tackling the main academic text, the hosts dive into the podcast mailbag to share some fascinating correspondence from a listener named Daniel Doleys in Ohio.
In a previous episode, the hosts discussed the Ovidian vignette of Erysichthon, a horrific myth detailing the destruction of a sacred grove. Daniel writes in to point out that this specific myth directly inspired a tragic scene in C.S. Lewis’s The Last Battle, where a magical dryad suddenly dies in front of King Tirian and Jewel the Unicorn as her corresponding tree is violently chopped down.
Jeff, who once wrote a chapter for an Oxford University Press book detailing the influence of the ancient Roman author Apuleius on C.S. Lewis, is thrilled by the connection. This literary discussion prompts Dave to share an anecdotal digression regarding modern fantasy. Years ago, a friend’s son expressed his deep love for the Chronicles of Narnia, proudly declaring his absolute favorite book in the series was “The Voyage of Don Cheadle”. The hosts laugh at the spectacular childhood misinterpretation, wondering how the famous Marvel actor managed to insert himself into a magical, seafaring Narnian adventure.
Pastoralism and Carthaginian Prosperity
The primary academic focus of Episode 173 resumes the podcast’s extensive journey through Carl Richard’s 2009 book, The Golden Age of the Classics in America. Diving into Chapter Three, titled “Pastoralism and Utilitarianism,” the hosts explore the fierce 19th-century debate regarding the ultimate purpose of education.
To set the stage, Dave reads a dramatic 1820 quote from the Western Review of Cincinnati. The author boldly proclaims that if the study of Cicero, Demosthenes, Homer, and Vergil were ever banished from American universities, mankind would immediately sink into absolute barbarism and universal mental darkness. The hosts note that over two centuries later, society is having the exact same cultural debates.
Richard argues that the Industrial Revolution and its massive surge of new wealth created an intense, romantic anti-commercial backlash. Harvard President John T. Kirkland famously urged America to produce actual fruits of the mind rather than settling for an unsanctified, perishable, “Carthaginian” prosperity. This rhetoric pitted the ideal of the Roman gentleman farmer (championed by Thomas Jefferson) against the aggressive, mercantile vision of Alexander Hamilton.
The hosts compare this 19th-century pastoral longing to modern anti-technology movements. Dave references Wendell Berry, the “crunchy con” movement, and the hilarious hipster communes parodied in Portlandia, where idealists flee the city to reconnect with the soil.
The Pose of the Everyman: Vergil and the Boss
While it is tempting to view ancient texts as pure reflections of rural life, Richard points out that classical pastoralists like Horace and Vergil were actually urban protesters. The commercial prosperity of Rome ironically financed their nostalgic poetry about the countryside.
Dave reads a gorgeous, highly romanticized excerpt from Vergil’s Georgics. Vergil heaps lavish praise on the simple, honest life of the poor farmer, free from the clashing of weapons and the gaudy, corrupting vanities of city life—like inlaid tortoiseshell columns, Assyrian dyes, and foreign spices. However, the hosts note that Vergil lived a life completely distant from the manual labor he extolled. Real ancient farmers desperately wanted to escape the grueling, backbreaking toil of agriculture.
The hosts compare Vergil’s pastoral poetry to a modern musical pose. Jeff likens the ancient poet to Bruce Springsteen or John Mellencamp—incredibly wealthy, successful artists who deliberately adopt the persona of the gritty, blue-collar “everyman” to sell records.
The Utilitarian Assault and Fossil Choctaw
As the Industrial Revolution advanced, a fierce utilitarian movement launched an assault against the classical languages. Critics argued that America needed a practical curriculum geared towards commerce and machinery, not ancient poetry.
The famous educational reformer Horace Mann aggressively questioned the relevance of the ancients. Mann absurdly asked why the Greeks and Romans built the magnificent Parthenon and the Colosseum before they figured out how to build a comfortable dwelling house, a sawmill, or a printing press. The hosts mock this narrow perspective, noting the arrogance required to look at the Hagia Sophia and ask why the ancients didn’t invent the iPhone instead.
In 1830, Henry Vethake of Princeton argued that Latin and Greek should be abandoned because everything worth reading had already been translated into English. Dave fiercely rejects this idea, stating that reading a masterpiece in translation is “like kissing someone through a window pane”. The assault reached its peak when the Southern Literary Messenger published a scathing satire in 1842, labeling Latin and Greek as barbarous tongues and “fossil Choctaw” whose only real use was for pretentious politicians to show off during speeches.
Jeff connects this to the modern educational landscape. Community college students pursuing highly practical trades, like HVAC repair, often grumble about having to take humanities electives. However, the hosts argue that the economist Nassim Taleb possessed the correct perspective: every student should learn something brand new and highly useful (like computer science), while also learning something old and useless (like Latin).
The Classical Counterattack: The Yale Report
Responding with absolute fury to the utilitarian assault, the defenders of the classics launched a devastating counterattack. When the Connecticut legislature attempted to force universities to replace ancient languages with modern ones, Yale President Jeremiah Day and classics professor James Luce Kingsley issued the famous Yale Report of 1828.
Day argued that a man’s primary object in life is not merely to attain a living through professional pursuits. Citizens have a moral duty to their country that requires broad, extensive “intellectual furniture.” While trades must be taught on the job site, the moral and political education of a citizen could only be forged in the classroom.
The success of the classical defense was staggering. When Albert Gallatin failed to make classics optional at NYU, he resigned in defeat. Harvard wildly increased its requirements, demanding applicants pass a brutal eight-hour qualifying examination entirely focused on Greek and Latin. The great writer Ralph Waldo Emerson celebrated the victory, declaring that Latin grammar was far superior to geography because it required a strict exactitude of performance that secured a student’s ultimate power to learn.
Sponsors: Fueling the Classical Renaissance
Before concluding the episode, the hosts are interrupted by loud banging on the bunker doors. Fearing an invasion by the American Planning Association (or the Association of Collegiate Schools of Planning) seeking revenge for last week’s discussion of Hippodamus, the hosts hastily lock the doors and thank their generous sponsors.
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- LatinPerDiem: For listeners inspired by the Yale Report to master the Latin language and ancient Greek, Dave is celebrating the ten-year anniversary of his educational platform. With over 2,300 free YouTube lessons available, students can visit latinperdiem.com. In honor of the movie Short Circuit, use the code 5ALIVE for an immediate 5% discount, or hold out for the massive anniversary sale arriving in the fall. Dave also highlights the newly formed “DOGE” (Dave’s Optimistic Greek Experience) designed to take students from neophyte to erudite.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
To officially close out Episode 173, the hosts extend their immense gratitude to Mishka the sound engineer, and to musicians Ken Tamplin and Scott Van Zen for providing the screaming arpeggios and bumper music. Next week, the podcast will welcome British scholar Peter Sarris to discuss the Emperor Justinian.
Jeff then delivers the Gustatory Parting Shot, courtesy of his own family’s history.
Reflecting on his middle son’s eccentric childhood phase, Jeff notes the boy went through a prolonged period of communicating strictly in a gruff, caveman style. When the boy was hungry, rather than asking politely, he would violently burst into the room and simply announce to his parents:
“Me hungry.”
With that primeval declaration, the hosts sign off. Check out the “Lurch with Merch” section on the website to grab a QVAE NOCENT DOCENT t-shirt, beware of kissing through window panes, and keep taking in the classics. Valete!
