Meta Description: Join Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle in Ad Navseam Episode 51 as they tackle the “Whole Enchilada” of Lucretius and his epic poem De Rerum Natura. Explore the myth of the love potion, the clash between Epicureanism and the Mos Maiorum, and the beautiful Latin language of the Invocation to Venus.
Introduction: Sweltering in the Vomitorium
Welcome back to the “Vomitorium,” listeners! It is Episode 51 of the Ad Navseam Podcast, and the atmosphere is positively tropical. Your hosts, Dr. David Noe and Dr. Jeff Winkle, are battling a “brutal” swelter that has turned the studio into a sauna.
The heat might be affecting the mood. Dr. Winkle admits to being “uptight and cranky,” a volatile combination that leads Dr. Noe to dub him “Cranky Pants.” This nickname seems especially earned given that Dr. Winkle has just returned from a vacation in Northern Michigan, where the mosquitoes “have their own podcasts.” He also confesses to breaking the cardinal rule of parenting: swimming on a full stomach. Yes, he “loaded up” on food and belly-flopped right into Lake Michigan.
Meanwhile, Dr. Noe is navigating a different kind of stress: he just sent his second child off to university. This milestone has him wrestling with his identity—is he a dad first or a teacher first? He describes the poignant feeling of “lecturing to blank walls and closed doors,” a sentiment that will resonate with many parents facing an empty nest.
But enough about aquatic indigestion and life transitions. We are here to discuss a heavy hitter of the Latin language: Titus Lucretius Carus and his philosophical epic, De Rerum Natura.
Shout-Out: The Near Misses of Ben Dyke
Before diving into the nature of the universe, we owe a shout-out to Ben Dyke. Ben is a 2005 graduate of Calvin University (where the hosts used to teach) and is now carrying the torch of the classics in Purcellville, Virginia. He teaches Latin at a high school and adjuncts at Patrick Henry College.
Ben writes that he and Dr. Winkle were like “ships passing in the night” at Calvin—Ben graduated just as Dr. Winkle arrived in 2005. He credits a 2004 trip to Italy with inspiring his career and notes that he has found the podcast “useful” for his classes—a compliment Dr. Noe accepts with incredulity. “Mom, if you’re listening, write this down: Your son was useful to someone!”
The Title: The Whole Enchilada?
The hosts begin by addressing the elephant in the room: the title. De Rerum Natura is traditionally translated as On the Nature of Things. Dr. Noe finds this “abysmal.” A title should be descriptive and catchy, and the traditional one fails on both counts.
Throughout the episode, they workshop better alternatives for this comprehensive, materialistic worldview:
- “The Whole Enchilada”.
- “The Universe and All That’s In It”.
- “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” (stolen from Douglas Adams).
- “Everything and the Kitchen Sink”.
- “Some Stuff I Scraped Together”.
- “What the Cat Dragged In”.
Regardless of the English title, the Latin De Rerum Natura signals a massive ambition: to explain the physics, ethics, and psychology of the entire cosmos without relying on the gods.
The Myth of the Mad Poet
Dr. Noe provides the opening quote from Gian Biagio Conte’s Latin Literature: A History, which tackles the sensational biography of Lucretius.
According to St. Jerome (translating Eusebius and Suetonius), Lucretius was:
“Driven to madness by a love potion (amatorio poculo)… wrote several books in the intervals of lucidity… and died by his own hand at the age of 43.”
Do the hosts buy this soap opera backstory? Not a chance. Conte argues—and the hosts agree—that this story was likely invented by later Christian authors to discredit Lucretius. By painting him as a madman driven crazy by a “love filter,” they could undermine his powerful anti-religious polemic. It is a classic ad hominem attack from the 4th century.
Lucretius wasn’t mad; he was an Epicurean. And to the Roman establishment (and later Christians), that was almost the same thing.
The Karate Chop to Roman Values
To understand why Lucretius was such a radical “outlier,” Dr. Winkle and Dr. Noe contrast his Epicurean philosophy with the Mos Maiorum—the “Custom of the Ancestors” that governed Roman life. Lucretius didn’t just offer a new idea; he delivered a “karate chop” to the foundations of Roman society.
1. Amicitia vs. True Friendship In Rome, Amicitia (friendship) was often a political alliance. It was about scratching backs and climbing ladders in the “Mortal Republic.” For Epicureans, friendship was the highest good—a private, affective bond enjoyed in a garden, away from politics. It was about “sipping Merlot” and discussing literature on a teak bench, not running for Consul.
2. Auctoritas vs. The Quiet Life Romans craved Auctoritas—personal clout and influence derived from family and public service. If you weren’t useful to the state, you were nobody. Lucretius argued for the “Quiet Life” (lathe biosas). He believed the pursuit of power was a recipe for anxiety and pain. To a Roman aristocrat like Cicero, this was practically treason. “Don’t try to live like an Epicurean,” the Romans would say. “Where is your service?”
3. Officium vs. Withdrawal Officium (Duty) was the glue of the Republic. The duty of the Consul, the duty of the father. Epicureanism preached withdrawal. Why stress about the state when the gods don’t care about you? This philosophical retreat into a “private cloister” or “bodega” was deeply attractive to some (and later to monks), but it threatened the fabric of the Roman state.
The Poem: Honey on the Cup
Lucretius wrote in dactylic hexameter, the meter of Homer and epic heroes. This was a strategic choice. He was writing Didactic Poetry (teaching poetry), which can be dry. By using the high style of epic, he was putting “honey on the rim of the cup” to make the bitter medicine of his philosophy go down easier.
He is the essential bridge in the Latin language. As the hosts note: “No Lucretius, No Virgil.” It took Romans 150 years to make the Greek hexameter speak Latin comfortably, and Lucretius paved the way for the Aeneid.
The Invocation to Venus: A Disney Moment
The poem opens with a stunning invocation to Venus.
Aeneadum genetrix, hominum divumque voluptas… “Mother of Aeneas’s people, delight of human beings and the gods…”
Dr. Noe and Dr. Winkle analyze this beautiful passage (translated by Smith from Hackett Publishing).
- Venus as Nature: This isn’t just the goddess of love; she is the procreative force of nature. Lucretius calls her Voluptas (Pleasure/Sex). She is the drive that keeps the world going.
- Neologisms: Lucretius invents words like frugiferentis (fruit-bearing) to force the Latin language to express Greek philosophical concepts.
- The Disney Effect: The description of the earth thrusting up flowers (daedala tellus) and the sky clearing at her arrival is cinematic. Dr. Noe compares it to the moment in The Wizard of Oz when the world turns to color, or a scene from Bambi. It is a lush, vibrant celebration of life.
Why invoke a goddess in an atheistic poem? Because she is the mother of the Romans (Aeneadum genetrix), and Lucretius knows his audience. He hooks them with mythology before deconstructing it.
Sponsors: Fuel for Your Philosophy
This deep dive into the nature of things is brought to you by:
- Ad Astra Roasters: Dr. Noe has a new favorite! While Tenebris held the top spot for ages, he is now enjoying The Whitney, a lighter, nutty roast named after a Civil War hero.
- The Deal: Visit adastraroasters.com and use code ANAA for 15% off.
- Hackett Publishing: For the Smith translation of Lucretius used in this episode, or the Bryn Mawr Commentaries for you serious students of the Latin language.
- The Deal: Visit hackettpublishing.com and use code AN2021 for 20% off and free shipping.
- Ratio Coffee: Dr. Noe uses the Ratio 8 (the one with the ceramic cone), and Dr. Winkle loves his Ratio 6. It uses a “Fibonacci head” to brew coffee that beats the “Brew Beanery Basket Barn Boutique.”
- The Deal: Visit ratiocoffee.com and use code ANCO for 15% off.
Office Hours and Stickers
Dr. Noe announces a major upgrade to the Moss Method. Starting this fall, members of the Greek cohort get Office Hours—every Friday morning, you can hang out with Dave, ask questions about Homer or the New Testament, and get expert guidance.
- The Deal: Get 15% off Module 1 or 2 at latinperdiem.com.
Also, don’t forget the Stickers! For $3.99, you get a high-quality sticker and a handwritten, hand-signed note from the hosts. It is the best deal in the classics.
The Gustatory Parting Shot
We end this sweltering episode with a quote from S.G.D. Singh (from the work Emergence), offering a botanical truth that feels appropriate for a discussion on nature:
“It’s called an artichoke. Lexi told him it’s good for you. Good for you how? I mean the choke part I guess.”
Valete! (And join us next week for Lucretius Part 2!)
Resources for the Latin and Greek Learner:MossMethod: Ready to read Lucretius in the original Latin or tackle the Greek of the New Testament? Visit latinperdiem.com to start your journey today!
